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Old 07-15-2007, 07:57 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
240 posts, read 1,281,532 times
Reputation: 317

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Signed the petition on Care2.

As far as this murderous administration goes, I'm surprised that W and Vice Dick haven't passed a law (circumventing Congress, of course) that nullifies the Endangered Species Act in its entirety. Why stop with wolves? Wipe out all the animals! They've certainly tried their hardest to rid themselves of any and all environmental constraints during the past painfully long six years.

And no doubt trigger-happy Cheney has influenced the decision on delisting the wolves. No doubt about it, protecting his precious campaign-contributing Wyomian (is there such a word???) ranchers. That guy has dollars for eyeballs and a heart filled with contempt and malice that hopefully will stop ticking here soon (although not soon enough).

Nature, left alone, will always create a balanced environment. Each living organism has its place in the world, from fauna to flora, from predator to prey. The human animal, however, doesn't fit well into the scheme of things. It has interrupted the symbiotic relationship of the natural world with its self-serving inventions that are intrinsically arrogant and devoid of wisdom. It has no predator except for itself, and unfortunately, that isn't enough to keep the population down to a manageable level. It is the species that has caused chaos in the natural world and will ultimately create --is well on the way to creating -- an inhospitable environment for all.

In view of this overwhelming pessimistic outlook, we must keep trying, in any way, however small it may seem, to stop this greed-driven destruction of our natural world and ultimately ourselves.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:16 PM
 
Location: California
11,466 posts, read 19,290,800 times
Reputation: 12712
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoZmiC NinJa View Post
There is no animal problem....only a people problem.
very true, the over population of people limit the space for wild animals causing the balance of nature to unbalance. Wildlife managment tracks the balance of differant types of wildlife and adjusts for it by issuing hunting permits and special hunts to correct the problem, sometimes you have to decrease the population of a animal to ensure the future of that animal and others.
Bush and Cheney were advised with studies on what needs to be done by wildlife managment, this sort of thing happens all the time all over the USA.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:31 PM
 
6,762 posts, read 11,590,209 times
Reputation: 3028
Maybe we should stop managing people too with healthcare. Let nature take its course and people can start dying younger from easily treatable illnesses. That way, our evil, horrible, murderous, hateful species will stop overpopulating the planet. We will save thousands of species from extinction and also stop global warming which is going to bake us all and cause the earth to spin out of orbit and crash into the sun.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
626 posts, read 990,263 times
Reputation: 141
What originally turned me against Bush was his complete lack of respect for the environment (no, it wasn't the war). There's a well documented pattern with this president.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,700 posts, read 41,886,322 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Somebody mentioned that wildlife naturally balances itself out. Almost.

Around 1900, the Elk population in the Big Horn Mountains was extinct. Gone. There weren't none. The Eaton ranch just West of Sheridan took it upon themselves to correct this problem. The wolves were wiping them out. So they took measures agains the wolves. Didn't take them all, but seriously thinned them down. Then Eatons went to the Idaho/Washington border area and rounded up Elk. Like you would cattle. Loaded them in cattle cars and transported them down to the Sheridan area. Trucked them out to the face of the mountain and turned them loose. Now, the Elk thrive in this area.

Thank you Eaton ranch!!!!!
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,766,626 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan k View Post
For everyones information,yes they do want to delist the wolf but that means legalized hunting.I hate to say it but i am a hunter but i was also taught to not kill anything you couldnt eat and usually i took one deer a year if that.
These people that hunt wolves, all they want to do is have it stuffed and mounted on the wall so they can show all their freinds how tough they are to kill a wolf with a gun.It takes a real man to kill something from 200 yards away with a gun that has teeth that cant reach 200 yards.
If you cant eat it and your family doesnt need the meat to have meat on the table then dont kill it.
Many deer hunters do the same. We live in a world where man and wildlife need to coexist, and humans are not going anywhere. There have to be wildlife management programs or species will wipe themselves out or overrun other species. It's just like with deer. If hunting deer was made illegal in Michigan and other States, the sheer bloodbath that would occur from deer killing themselves off would probably turn the stomach of any Vegan. I don't hunt, but I understand reality.

That petition website is a little light on any kind of background information. You might want to start here first and do a little fact-checking first:

wolf management program wyoming - Google Search
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:26 PM
 
Location: northern big wonderfull (Wyoming)
150 posts, read 518,228 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan k View Post
What is wrong with our current leadership? A new proposal by the Bush/Cheney administration is too kill wolves.For more info on this proposal please go to this link:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/120490287

I just cant figure out what is wrong with this picture, we send people over to another country to interfere with their battles and have our own troops dying in a land where nobody wants to be, and now these stupid proposals of killing the wolves in yellowstone and other states because they are in the way.My question is,Who are they bothering? My answer is, The ranchers that put their livestock there because the land is cheap and the rich people that want to live in the middle of nowhere and let their little french poodle outside without it being turned into an appetizer.
If these people want to move to places like that then they need to live with nature and not destroy it, i feel safer camping in the wilderness with wolves howling not far away than i do walking down the street in Phoenix arizona.
Where are the politicians.Oh yeah they are showing us that they can protect us from wolves and animals that cant fight back but why cant they protect us from the violence of the cities and illegal border crossings.
I say spend the time and money making our streets safer and leave mother nature alone.Yeah we are strong and powerful, klling helpless animals but we cant stop the criminals carrying weapons.PLease read the link i provided, they need 50,000 signatures and in the last 24 hours have received over 2000 .Lets let our leaders know what the real pressing matters are in this country, its not the wolves of Yellowstone, it is the crime on our streets, lets put our tax money to better use and also bring our troops home where they belong.
I am in the middle of this the elk populations are down moose are allmost gone them wolves are hurting lot more than french poodles. 12 years ago wild life in the absorka range was verry strong now you seldom see elk and I havent seen amoose in the absokas for 5 years the wolves have desamated the poulations. And it isent just the rich mans poodles 2 years ago a pack of wolves killed 13 sheep out of a heard in the red desert of wyoming 200 miles from yellowstone and the next night they came back and killed 5 more and 2 great perines dogs. They are compeatly out of controll they kill just to kill they will take down a royall elk and not eat hardly any of it I came across one last year just roting in the sun killed by wolves the war is hard but this is a real problem if you live around it.
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Old 07-16-2007, 03:20 AM
 
9,725 posts, read 15,109,736 times
Reputation: 3346
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSayNo View Post
Can you believe this crap. The human species continues to spreed out and take the rest of the living creatures "down" because they can. I'll tell ya, I am in Southern Tier NY in the middle of no where with Coyotes, bear, wolves are now being spotted. In fact at 2:30 am last night during my last potty-break with the dogs, I heard something in the dark that made me skidattle right back in fast! Did I want to get the gun and kill whatever it was so I could wander in the woods in the midlle of the night? NO. I made sure all the windows were closed (bear can get through screens) locked the doors and went to bed. I am the lucky one to have the privledge to live HERE-the territory of the Coys, bears, dears, turkey, beavers, herons, wolves perhaps (will not believe it till I see it).

It pisses me off to my core that the most DESTRUCTIVE species continues to spreed out and *itch about wildlife making their lives hard. Move to THE CITY if you don't want to live among wildlife. If you are a scardy cat and can't deal, than don't live there!!

So tragic, wolves are beautiful and amazing creatures-far more than the humans involved in this scheme.
There is a neighborhood here in Los Angeles that had a recent visit by a mother black bear and her cub. I can't remember the exact details, but the Animal Control people were successful in chasing the bears back into the wilderness. As it turned out, people in that neighborhood were accustomed to the bears and didn't bother them. In fact, one man shared a photograph that he took of three or four bears enjoying his swimming pool!

Also, regarding the suggestion to move to the city -- there is wildlife in Los Angeles -- deer, bears, squirrels, raccoons, possum, coyotes, etc. It's amazing when you think about it. The only times I hear of them actually hunting them down is when it is mountain lions attacking humans in the area.
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:20 AM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,396 posts, read 44,888,052 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigreez View Post
I am in the middle of this the elk populations are down moose are allmost gone them wolves are hurting lot more than french poodles. 12 years ago wild life in the absorka range was verry strong now you seldom see elk and I havent seen amoose in the absokas for 5 years the wolves have desamated the poulations. And it isent just the rich mans poodles 2 years ago a pack of wolves killed 13 sheep out of a heard in the red desert of wyoming 200 miles from yellowstone and the next night they came back and killed 5 more and 2 great perines dogs. They are compeatly out of controll they kill just to kill they will take down a royall elk and not eat hardly any of it I came across one last year just roting in the sun killed by wolves the war is hard but this is a real problem if you live around it.
I sympathize with sheep and cattle farmers, and to a lesser degree, hunters (but never trophy hunters.)
Wolves are not furry little angels. They are hungry predators.
But they should never again be scapegoats.
Legally or not, they will continue to be killed, but killing all the wolves will not rid the area of brucellosis and other diseases. disease. (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2007/04/22/news/wyoming/df585f3b880c5d50872572c400002c54.txt - broken link)
The story of elk in the Rocky Mountain West:
Distribution and Abundance

In North America

At the time of the first Euro-American settlement, elk range extended across most of temperate North America except the Great Basin and what would become the southeastern United States.
By 1900, a combination of uncontrolled harvests, market hunting, and habitat destruction reduced elk distribution to parts of Canada and the Rocky Mountain and west coast states. Various conservation strategies were used to augment depleted elk populations, including state and federal protection, reintroduction of elk, hunting regulations, and acquiring, restoring, and sustaining adequate habitat. These efforts, funded primarily by hunting interests, increased elk numbers ten-fold, to a total North American population of almost 800,000 (Bunnell et al. 2002; Peek 2003). Elk have been restored to most suitable ranges in western North America, with current efforts focused on establishing populations in the mid-continent and eastern states and provinces.
link (broken link)

Maybe elk are seldom seen because of the 7 year drought, a hard winter and that bears have been killing the calves.
Then there is disease.
In addition to 22 state-run feedgrounds, elk are fed during the winter at the National Elk Refuge. Because of their high densities, elk that use Wyoming feedgrounds have sustained high levels of brucellosis, a contagious bacterial disease that originated in livestock and often causes infected cows to abort their first calves. Transmission of brucellosis from feedground elk, where an average of 30% have tested positive for exposure to the bacteria, was the apparent source of infection in Wyoming cattle in 2004.
Snippet:
n the ecology journal OIKOS biologist John Vucetich and park service colleagues examined weather, hunting, and wolves as factors in the elk decline. Y’stone has had 7 years of drought and a severe winter in 1997 that killed many elk. They found that weather and hunting are mostly to blame. Biologist Mike Boyce of Canada’s U. of Alberta also came to that conclusion in a paper in the journal “ECOLOGICAL MODELING”. ”Montana’s increased “hunter harvest” quota on elk that leave the Park grounds, issuing a higher than ever 2,882 hunting permits in 2000. ” A decline in the elk herd was guaranteed; Boyce said, even if wolves were not present”.
link
Elk cannot migrate because of housing development. Elk are fed by the Fish and Game department at feedlots. Wolves are attracted to the feedlots.
But authorities want to, and I quote:
"Take any action necessary to protect big and trophy game populations in this state from predation by gray wolves."
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:38 AM
 
Location: northern big wonderfull (Wyoming)
150 posts, read 518,228 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by cil View Post
I sympathize with sheep and cattle farmers, and to a lesser degree, hunters (but never trophy hunters.)
Wolves are not furry little angels. They are hungry predators.
But they should never again be scapegoats.
there not scape goats they are the problem
Legally or not, they will continue to be killed, but killing all the wolves will not rid the area of brucellosis and other diseases.
wolves have nothing to do with bursalosis it is a desiese that makes the cows abortdisease. (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2007/04/22/news/wyoming/df585f3b880c5d50872572c400002c54.txt - broken link)
The story of elk in the Rocky Mountain West:
Distribution and Abundance

In North America

At the time of the first Euro-American settlement, elk range extended across most of temperate North America except the Great Basin and what would become the southeastern United States.
By 1900, a combination of uncontrolled harvests, market hunting, and habitat destruction reduced elk distribution to parts of Canada and the Rocky Mountain and west coast states. Various conservation strategies were used to augment depleted elk populations, including state and federal protection, reintroduction of elk, hunting regulations, and acquiring, restoring, and sustaining adequate habitat. These efforts, funded primarily by hunting interests, increased elk numbers ten-fold, to a total North American population of almost 800,000 (Bunnell et al. 2002; Peek 2003). Elk have been restored to most suitable ranges in western North America, with current efforts focused on establishing populations in the mid-continent and eastern states and provinces.
link (broken link)

Maybe elk are seldom seen because of the 7 year drought, a hard winter and that bears have been killing the calves.
the same rain fell in the big horn mountans as the absorka mountans big horns still have elk and moose but not many wolves
Then there is disease.
In addition to 22 state-run feedgrounds, elk are fed during the winter at the National Elk Refuge. Because of their high densities, elk that use Wyoming feedgrounds have sustained high levels of brucellosis, a contagious bacterial disease that originated in livestock and often causes infected cows to abort their first calves. Transmission of brucellosis from feedground elk, where an average of 30% have tested positive for exposure to the bacteria, was the apparent source of infection in Wyoming cattle in 2004.
Snippet:
the reason that the elk need fed on feed grounds is due to the forest service leasing the elks winter range to ranchers in the summer and it gets grazed to the nub so then the game and fish have to feed them that is a forest service problem that is separate but allso needs solved.
n the ecology journal OIKOS biologist John Vucetich and park service colleagues examined weather, hunting, and wolves as factors in the elk decline. Y’stone has had 7 years of drought and a severe winter in 1997 that killed many elk. They found that weather and hunting are mostly to blame. Biologist Mike Boyce of Canada’s U. of Alberta also came to that conclusion in a paper in the journal “ECOLOGICAL MODELING”. ”Montana’s increased “hunter harvest” quota on elk that leave the Park grounds, issuing a higher than ever 2,882 hunting permits in 2000. ” A decline in the elk herd was guaranteed; Boyce said, even if wolves were not present”.
link
Elk cannot migrate because of housing development. Elk are fed by the Fish and Game department at feedlots. Wolves are attracted to the feedlots.
But authorities want to, and I quote:
"Take any action necessary to protect big and trophy game populations in this state from predation by gray wolves."
I know this is what the world is told but I live here and it just isent true I am sorry if people dissagree but I have seen it with my own eyes.
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