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Old 01-07-2011, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
45 posts, read 46,181 times
Reputation: 35

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BramH View Post
Ehm I don't know where you are talking about really...Schools here cost as much for smart or less smart people. And we can also simply get a loan for university, mostly provided by the government.
You are more of opening up a new topic that the less bright can not go to university, but even that is possible it just takes longer.

Anyway, I didn't really meant to say our system is better or talk about the system at all. I was just pointing out that it's not comparable.
I think my main point was is that it is much harder to get into a university in Europe than in the US (not sure about the UK, but I have heard in Germany that if you don't do well, you are destined for a vocational school). I actually think the European system is better in terms of education. It is not PC here to say that people who poorly perform in academics should not go to a university. Thus you get an influx of people who have access to near unlimited credit to go to school. They will go to some really low ranked school, pile up the debt, and have no future when the realize no one will hire them.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:39 AM
 
5,546 posts, read 6,874,098 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronous View Post
"1. Although the OP may be mad about pot in general, the US certainly has set a standard with spending trillions of dollars on an endless, unwinable war on drugs."

Winning the War on Drugs is a bit utopic. I doubt that you will ever have 0 drug consumption in the US. However, drug abuse has declined from the epidemic levels in the late 80s.

"A war that was lost before it started, and continues to lock people up in prisons for very minor offenses such as possession of marijuana."

It is minor if you discount the gateway drug theory.

EDIT: I believe that Alcohol is considered a gateway drug as well. In fact, alcohol ruins many many lives, and was just recently considered the most dangerous drug of them all by a study (I'd have to dig it up). I don't expect us to agree here, so I'll agree to disagree with you.

"This is also very different from sex with an underage girl as you suggest. That's causing direct harm to another person, whereas smoking or injecting something into your body is something you do to yourself."

How so? If the 8 (or 16) year old decides to have sex is she not doing something to herself even if it is harmful?

The law isn't on the 8 (or 16) year old. It's on the adult. The adult has the responsibility of not having relations with someone under a determined age. This is because, a child is not old enough to make adult decisions regarding relations with adults. Therefore, the adult does the child harm.

"Just guessing, but I believe the OP is pointing out that our media is all owned (through mergers and corporate buy-outs) by big business. This limits choices of true, unbiased media coverage, despite programs with different names appearing on different channels."

Frankly there is no such thing as unbiased media coverage. Call things "unbiased" is simply a word to trash the opposition. Main stream media is a reflection of Mainstream America's views. For example Rupert Murdoch saw there was no major network catering to the conservative right in America so he started Fox News. CNN caters to the center left, while NBC appears to be shifting to the left (e.g. Keith Obermann).

That's fine, as it's your opinion. A fact is most media outlets are owned by large corporations. My opinion is that there are not enough independent news sources available, and the mainstream public is following media that is bought by big business and politicians.

"4. Not sure about the US having more Utilitarian cities...or what you mean by that. In fact, I think the US has large issues with city planning, mainly around infrastructure (aka Public Transport). People live in smaller places in those cities compared to the average US household, but that's because they're dense cities. That's no different from NYC, Boston, Philly, etc."

Utalitarian means function over form. Many Euro cities for example have beautiful cities with elegant/quaint bridges. In the US they are hunks of concrete. However, on average Europeans (whether in cities or in rural areas) tend to have smaller living spaces then Americans. My cousin lives in a rural part of England and her house is like a closet. Europeans also tend to have less spending capacity. For example I have heard it is not unusual for people in the UK to inherit alot of their furniture from their parents. In the US we usually buy new furniture every few years or so.

I'm not sure if US cities really function better than European cities. Although people live in smaller spaces, public transportation and infrastructure is far better than what we have here in the US. I'm not speaking of style or beauty here, I'm speaking to insufficient transportation options here in the US, especially when gas becomes more expensive, roads are harder to pave and Americans become poorer.
Some responses in bold above.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,384 posts, read 28,513,296 times
Reputation: 5884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronous View Post
Perhaps, but most people are aware that job opportunities are severely lacking in Europe compared to the US. This is especially true in places like Italy where I have heard many people in their 30s are still living with their parents (and that was before the recession).
I wouldn't immigrate to Italy/Spain/Greece or many other EU countries just for those reasons, only specific countries there, and it isn't so much that it is SOOO much better, I just like it over there and their populations speak more English than other countries.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Toronto
1,654 posts, read 5,855,294 times
Reputation: 861
Northern Italy's actually quite economically sound (Parma/Milan/Venice), it's the south that's suffered.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:16 PM
 
11,289 posts, read 26,196,693 times
Reputation: 11355
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
First of all, I'm an American.

As a kid, I kinda sorta bought the whole jingoism thing about the heroic Founding Fathers, and One Nation Under God, and all that. I never really got emotional during the National Anthem or anything, just seemed like a tradition, but I never really thought much of it.

The older I get (I'm only 21 btw), the more and more I realize most of what we consider great about America is either not true at all or isn't true in this day and age. The reality is, America is not all that free compared to a lot of countries, you can't really do anything without a permit and multiple forms of ID, pot is still illegal, the media, while technically free, is dominated by the mainstream media to the point that the influence of the alternative media is permitted only because it is not influential in comparison, we have more people in jail than any country in the world because we believe in revenge and not in rehabilitation and treatment, it costs a fortune to rent, to the point that poor people can't even live in some states.

Americans are basically raised to believe the outside world is still living in the 1800s at the latest and the stone age in many places. Most Americans have no idea that western Europe and much of Asia is far more modern in infrastructure than most of the States are, and ignore the fact that places like New Orleans are practically third world and even though we don't chop off people's hands like a few Middle Eastern countries do, we do still use the death penalty even though countries like Turkey have even gotten rid of it and put people in jail for decades for relatively minor crimes such as drug offenses. Not to mention a very large percentage of Americans probably believe the world is 6,000 years old and that evolution is a myth.

American idealism is a strange brew of Christianity, materialism, and individualism. Religion without spirituality, Christ without the compassion. Everything is about individual rights even though the average American loves to complain about how irresponsible people unlike themselves are.

Americans are the most submissive to authority people ever. Americans demand swift and cold justice to all evil-doers, unless they wear a suit, then they deserve our scorn but otherwise deserve to get off scott-free. Americans believe being in the Army automatically makes you a hero, even if you kill innocent people in other countries for fun. We constantly re-elect the same types of people into office even though they never do us any good, because we believe that strongly in the good of the status quo.

Americans would rather let people with cancer just die than have universal healthcare. Hard work is valued infinitely over having a good time; that's why most Americans only get 3 weeks off their job the WHOLE FREAKING YEAR.

I thought only a certain type of American (ie, a redneck) was super-patriotic and jingoistic, but I've come to discover a vast majority of my people basically think we're superior to everyone else.

Stop kidding yourselves guys - we are not the light of the world. Not anymore at least.
I think most people have realized this in one way or another when they reach 18-22 years of age. This isn't something NEW, people have been coming to terms with reality of our country for decades now. I still love America, and don't plan on moving away, but obviously it's not all its cracked up to be when you hear the fairytales as a kid. People are the most free, justice, equality, best country on earth. It's all relative.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Kerkrade, Limburg, Netherlands
262 posts, read 550,347 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronous View Post
I think my main point was is that it is much harder to get into a university in Europe than in the US (not sure about the UK, but I have heard in Germany that if you don't do well, you are destined for a vocational school). I actually think the European system is better in terms of education. It is not PC here to say that people who poorly perform in academics should not go to a university. Thus you get an influx of people who have access to near unlimited credit to go to school. They will go to some really low ranked school, pile up the debt, and have no future when the realize no one will hire them.
Ah okay in that way you are right, it is not possible for everyone to get a university level too easy. In Germany, the university selects you on your average of secundary school. On the other side, you Can get a the same education just not on every school. Some take extra courses to show that they improved on specific subjects which are like importnat to the study.
In the Netherlands it's different again. There's 3 different school levels as secundary school. One takes 4 levels, one 5 one 6.
With 5 year you are ready at the age of 16/17, the 6year 17/18.
With the 5 year one you go to High School.
with the 6 year one you are allowed to go to University and High School.

Within these levels you have to choose a specific direction out of 4 in the 4th year. Economics, Culture, Biology, Mathematics. This is because most studies require a specific level on specific subjects.
And for very popular studies also the average counts.

So how is it in the US, can you choose whatever study you want on every university you like or how?
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Status: "Pickleball-Free American" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,462 posts, read 44,083,751 times
Reputation: 16856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
Go check out some of the other "gardens of Eden" on the planet and report back to me.
My thought exactly.
Youth is wasted on the young.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:53 PM
 
Location: MichOhioigan
1,595 posts, read 2,987,422 times
Reputation: 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
First of all, I'm an American.

As a kid, I kinda sorta bought the whole jingoism thing about the heroic Founding Fathers, and One Nation Under God, and all that. I never really got emotional during the National Anthem or anything, just seemed like a tradition, but I never really thought much of it.

The older I get (I'm only 21 btw), the more and more I realize most of what we consider great about America is either not true at all or isn't true in this day and age. The reality is, America is not all that free compared to a lot of countries, you can't really do anything without a permit and multiple forms of ID, pot is still illegal, the media, while technically free, is dominated by the mainstream media to the point that the influence of the alternative media is permitted only because it is not influential in comparison, we have more people in jail than any country in the world because we believe in revenge and not in rehabilitation and treatment, it costs a fortune to rent, to the point that poor people can't even live in some states.

Americans are basically raised to believe the outside world is still living in the 1800s at the latest and the stone age in many places. Most Americans have no idea that western Europe and much of Asia is far more modern in infrastructure than most of the States are, and ignore the fact that places like New Orleans are practically third world and even though we don't chop off people's hands like a few Middle Eastern countries do, we do still use the death penalty even though countries like Turkey have even gotten rid of it and put people in jail for decades for relatively minor crimes such as drug offenses. Not to mention a very large percentage of Americans probably believe the world is 6,000 years old and that evolution is a myth.

American idealism is a strange brew of Christianity, materialism, and individualism. Religion without spirituality, Christ without the compassion. Everything is about individual rights even though the average American loves to complain about how irresponsible people unlike themselves are.

Americans are the most submissive to authority people ever. Americans demand swift and cold justice to all evil-doers, unless they wear a suit, then they deserve our scorn but otherwise deserve to get off scott-free. Americans believe being in the Army automatically makes you a hero, even if you kill innocent people in other countries for fun. We constantly re-elect the same types of people into office even though they never do us any good, because we believe that strongly in the good of the status quo.

Americans would rather let people with cancer just die than have universal healthcare. Hard work is valued infinitely over having a good time; that's why most Americans only get 3 weeks off their job the WHOLE FREAKING YEAR.

I thought only a certain type of American (ie, a redneck) was super-patriotic and jingoistic, but I've come to discover a vast majority of my people basically think we're superior to everyone else.

Stop kidding yourselves guys - we are not the light of the world. Not anymore at least.
I agree with your post 99.9%.
The exception is the last statement. We never were the "light of the world". It was just another part of the bowl of patriotic lies we were spoon fed.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Denver
6,625 posts, read 14,459,637 times
Reputation: 4201
You're going way over the edge on this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronous View Post
"This is also very different from sex with an underage girl as you suggest. That's causing direct harm to another person, whereas smoking or injecting something into your body is something you do to yourself."

How so? If the 8 (or 16) year old decides to have sex is she not doing something to herself even if it is harmful?
This is basically the equivalent of someone saying "people shouldn't get arrested for getting into a shoving match outside of a bar" and you responding "Oh and I guess you want to waterboard a bus full of orphans too don't you, you pinko commie?!"

Smoking a joint and having sex with an 8 year old are so far apart that I can't believe you actually tried to make that connection.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
45 posts, read 46,181 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by BramH View Post
So how is it in the US, can you choose whatever study you want on every university you like or how?

An interesting effect of American leftism has been this view that everyone has the right to go to a university. A student will usually take core classes in high school as well as some electives. Near graduation from high school, he or she will apply to various universities. Depending on his or her academic performance, he or she will be admitted, denied, or admitted with money (if they are really smart). However, there are toilet universities that cater to people that did miserably in school. And yes a US college student will likely not be forced to decide what they want to major in until after they are admitted.
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