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Old 01-07-2011, 08:33 PM
 
3,681 posts, read 6,293,659 times
Reputation: 1516

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dampylle View Post
Slippery Slope fallacy much there? Perhaps you could provide some sort of logical basis for your comments as it seems like little more than scare tactics in opposition of change that allows for more types of familial units to feel at ease.
Have you read the book I earlier referenced? Its called, "Que*ring Elementary Education" and it has a foreward written by the Obama appointed Safe Schools Czar, Kevin Jennings, who right now holds a quite influential position in our public schools. It promotes Gender Neutrality and how to teach this to elementary school children.

Very interesting read. I have the book. You can check it out on Amazon.com and read the reviews if you don't want to fork out the $ for it.

It will make those who read it, have a little more respect for the "slippery slope" which you call a fallacy.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,456,043 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I hate being called "he" and "she" and "sir" and "ma'am" and "Mr." and "Ms." because gendered titles irk me. But people do it all the time. I can't expect everyone to understand that I don't really identify strongly with my biological gender, but people don't know that. And honestly they shouldn't be expected to know that and bow to my wishes, especially if it's a stranger on the street or someone I don't know well. So I just let people call me whatever pronoun or title they so choose (and I get both more or less the same amount). But we live in a gendered world with men's restrooms and women's restrooms, and people function by gender. English only has two options--male or female. So I suck it up and live with it. I bite my tongue when someone calls me "he" or "ma'am" because they're just trying to do their job or say hi or whatever.

Let it go. Not everyone can keep track of your personal desires and feelings. Leave that up to the people that care about you, not the government.

Rep for you.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:34 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,756,583 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
I have not said the world as we know it is crashing. I gave my feelings and they are mocked and made into jokes. I have been respectful to the other side and have NOT received that back. I find it amazing that people want more tolerance but give none in return. You want us to "see things from your" POV but just and mock ours. Glass houses you know!
That's because your arguments have been intellectually shallow and emotionally maudlin.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
8,346 posts, read 7,068,134 times
Reputation: 2874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Why am I insignificant but the ones that want it changed are not? Why are they any more important then I am? Does it at the end of the day change my world? No but why is any one group more important then another.
No group is more important than the other.

That's the point.

Nobody's getting excluded.

Quote:
And I am not "cryin" about anything I am simply playing devils advocate and looking at it from another POV.
Please point out where I said "you" specifically.

I understand you're playing devil's advocate.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:35 PM
 
10,448 posts, read 12,509,144 times
Reputation: 12598
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Apparent to you is a parent of no biological connection.

The Daisy Hill Puppy farm is a Government hatchery.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E8zPSgaMfQ
Can you explain the video to me? I'm deaf and blind. Thanks.

Ooh, I found out today I can only get a street sign on my block that says either DEAF or BLIND but not DEAF BLIND. I wonder if I should get worked up about that too and lobby the government because they aren't respecting my preference to be referred to by the more accurate "deaf-blind".
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:36 PM
 
75 posts, read 60,572 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Why am I insignificant but the ones that want it changed are not? Why are they any more important then I am? Does it at the end of the day change my world? No but why is any one group more important then another.

And I am not "cryin" about anything I am simply playing devils advocate and looking at it from another POV.
Because your desire to keep it unchanged is based off of emotion, and not logic.

It is logical to include every possible combination of parent by removing gender restrictions from the form, in several different ways.
It is illogical to exclude same-sex couples simply for the sake of moms who want to feel vindicated for carrying a kid around in their body for 9 months.

Logic is more important than emotion.

For someone trying to play devil's advocate, you're certainly trying hard to ignore any possible answers that make your argument null.
In most places I go, someone who argues and ignores arguments just for the sake of continuing an argument isn't called "Devil's Advocate". They're called "Trolls".
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,456,043 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
well I'll ask you the questions questions I asked maja that she has yet to answer:

does this new change in the passport application affect YOU in a negative way?

does this new change affect YOU in a positive way?

does this change affect YOU at all?

and BTW, when I say "affect" I don't mean it hurts you feeling. I mean does it make living your life, your day to day living, or, in this case getting a passport, a harder or easier experience? a negative or positive experience? or will it not affect it at all?

if you can answer yes to any of these questions, pray tell, do relate to us here your concerns over the changes that will be made in your life, and we'll listen and sympathize.

if you answered no to any of the above, then why the uproar over nothing?

No to all of it. This all started because I said I could understand her POV and I do. Does not mean I agree but I do understand it and argued that. At the end of the day do I really care if they change it? No. I do however think "Parent 1 and Parent 2" sounds ridiculous. They should just use Parent(s) in both sections.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:38 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,756,583 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Your opinion. If it is so ridiculous then why does it have to be changed?
It's not ridiculous to change mother/father to parent/parent. It's more inclusive this way.

What is ridiculous is to have a hissy fit over the change and act as if something has been taken away from your role in life as a mother.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,024 posts, read 15,398,070 times
Reputation: 8158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Why am I insignificant but the ones that want it changed are not? Why are they any more important then I am? Does it at the end of the day change my world? No but why is any one group more important then another.

And I am not "cryin" about anything I am simply playing devils advocate and looking at it from another POV.
YOU are the one making yourself insignificant, not the government. really, is it that tragic to be seen as a "parent"? when you and your spouse are together, do you feel this offended when someone call's you "XYZ's parents" instead of "XYZ's mother and father"?

people are taking these terms so freaking personally and can't seem to see the big picture that this is just a major government entity trying to streamline a process made more difficult by changing family dynamics. probably no different from forms needing to include "biracial" when anti-miscegenation laws were overturned and people of mixed races became far more common
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:41 PM
 
8,046 posts, read 9,260,640 times
Reputation: 9625
Hey what about the growing trend of Grandparents raising their grandchilden, or cases of parents being killed and other people being custodians of the children?

to make the form trully "universal" shouldn't it read: Parent/Guardian/Custodian/Legal representative #1 and #2?
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