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Old 01-07-2011, 08:42 PM
 
75 posts, read 60,538 times
Reputation: 28

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Let me make it perfectly clear.

Parent/Parent is not catering to a specific group. It is making it fit everybody. It includes every possible combination of parents.
Keeping it as Mother/Father would be catering to a specific group. Namely, people who feel that they should be termed by their gender.

Changing it to Parent/Parent is not catering to a group. It is the logical option between Parent/Parent and Mother/Father.

Logic wins. Including everybody wins. Excluding people because some people whined about not being called a mother? Nope, that doesn't win, because there is no logical reason for it.

There is no way this can be made more clear. There is no way this can be disputed without resorting to "BUT THIS IS WHAT I WANT!" There is no more argument. Any further argument is pointless.

Last edited by Mister Brilliant; 01-07-2011 at 08:44 PM.. Reason: Additions.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:43 PM
 
3,681 posts, read 6,288,824 times
Reputation: 1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
No matter how Fox spins this, it's not about homosexuals. It's simply a valid assessment that most children don't live with their biological mothers and fathers any more.

A good many live with at least one grand parent, more with a step-dad or step-mom and some with neither mother nor father, so this change is appropriate and nothing to worry about. Since Mother and Father are terms related to the sex of the person involved, while parent is simply a job description which can apply to anyone raising the child, what's wrong with changing the terminology on a government form?

Or, would you prefer the form be lengthened to include every possibility:

Father----------------
If not living with father, step dad-----------------
If no step dad, grandad-------------------
Other family member-----------------
Other (Please specifiy)--------------------
No. "Parent" does not refer to simply a job description which can apply to anyone raising the child. That would be "guardian." The form was obviously not designed to accomodate Grandmas, Grandpas, Aunts & Uncles raising a child. It is accommodating a specific group that has been lobbying for years for this - LGBTQ
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:43 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,739,198 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Oh it won't but many on here are saying "what is the big deal" well if it is not a big deal why does it have to be changed?
Is it okay if I call you "father" or refer to you as "sir" from now on? That's what one of the females in a two-female-parent household have had to deal with until now. It makes a lot more sense to have "parent" on the form so that it can include everybody.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,452,648 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Brilliant View Post
Because you are unimportant, and you're basing your complaints off of emotions.
There is no logical reason to be referred to as mother. It's emotion only.
There are plenty of logical reasons to standardize it as Parent/Parent.

Sucks to be you that logic is the more important driving factor.

Also: Your friends seem to not think that forms should be designed simply because of what they want. You should learn that as a lesson from them.

You really have no clue. It is your opinion that it is based on emotion. How do you know? Had you read the entire thread you would have realized that I actually did not have a problem with the change and simply said that I could understand how the other side feels. It is a wonderful thing to be able to see the other sides POV, you should try it sometimes. You are very new here and if you stick around ypu will see that I have "friends" from all sides not just one.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:45 PM
 
10,448 posts, read 12,496,470 times
Reputation: 12598
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSHL10 View Post
Hey what about the growing trend of Grandparents raising their grandchilden, or cases of parents being killed and other people being custodians of the children?

to make the form trully "universal" shouldn't it read: Parent/Guardian/Custodian/Legal representative #1 and #2?
I think "Legal guardian" would be more inclusive. I also think being able to add more than two slots would be more inclusive. (Think families that have a mom, dad, step-mom or something to that effect.)

I do think this is a step in the right direction. It's more inclusive but not all-inclusive.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Long Beach, CA
195 posts, read 186,801 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
Have you read the book I earlier referenced? Its called, "Que*ring Elementary Education" and it has a foreward written by the Obama appointed Safe Schools Czar, Kevin Jennings, who right now holds a quite influential position in our public schools. It promotes Gender Neutrality and how to teach this to elementary school children.

Very interesting read. I have the book. You can check it out on Amazon.com and read the reviews if you don't want to fork out the $ for it.

It will make those who read it, have a little more respect for the "slippery slope" which you call a fallacy.
Slippery Slope is actually a specific form of Fallacy... a well presented Fallacy is still a Fallacy. If you simply present several extreme possibilities in a disjointed manor with no logical evidence to support and prove each in the chain then claim an extreme outcome... it is still Fallacy no matter how well you word or present it.

Teaching of neutral terms does not in of itself preclude the use of specific terms either though... Using the term Parent does not preclude the use of the term Mother, it simply favors a more inclusive usage.

Claiming the use of inclusive and neutral terms will lead to exclusive or specific terms not being used at all is to say the very least a drastic leap... teaching neutral terms likewise does not mean we are not teaching specific terms (claiming it is without proof and evidence is false cause fallacy by the way)

So again... fallacy is not logic, fallacy is not proof, fallacy is by definition a flawed or skewed presentation that does not truly prove a point.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,452,648 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
Me, me, me, me, me. care to attempt to think of the bigger picture and not just worry about your feelings here? care to sit down and realize how many people likely breathed a sigh of relief and happiness that this changed was made b/c it took a huge burden off their chest and made at least this portion of their lives a bit easier? are you so willing to disregard these people to suit your own somewhat ridiculous need for the government to see you as a "mother" and not just a "parent" (which, guess what? you ARE A PARENT!!)?


the selfishness in this thread astounds me....

Blah another one that clearly did not read the entire thread.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:47 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,739,198 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Why am I insignificant but the ones that want it changed are not? Why are they any more important then I am? Does it at the end of the day change my world? No but why is any one group more important then another.

And I am not "cryin" about anything I am simply playing devils advocate and looking at it from another POV.
I think you're just trying to be argumentative for the hell of it. There's no logic to what you're saying. It's all just silly, emotional cries about how no one cares about your opinion and your feelings. Please.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:47 PM
 
75 posts, read 60,538 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
You really have no clue. It is your opinion that it is based on emotion. How do you know? Had you read the entire thread you would have realized that I actually did not have a problem with the change and simply said that I could understand how the other side feels. It is a wonderful thing to be able to see the other sides POV, you should try it sometimes. You are very new here and if you stick around ypu will see that I have "friends" from all sides not just one.
Where did I say that you specifically had a problem with it?
I said "your complaints".
That means "The complaints which you are presenting".
Doesn't mean you personally hold them.

And you have presented no arguments against the change that don't revolve around emotions.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,452,648 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kissybear View Post
Because you are just a number to them. You are person XXX-XX-XXXX parent of XXX-XX-XXXX
They do not owe you to call you anything other than that. You're feelings do not matter.

So why do the other sides feelings matter? I keep getting the "me, me, me" thing and "why are you so selfish" What about the other side? Why re they not selfish? Why are they not all about "me, me, me"?
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