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Old 01-07-2011, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,024 posts, read 15,399,199 times
Reputation: 8163

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I think "Legal guardian" would be more inclusive. I also think being able to add more than two slots would be more inclusive. (Think families that have a mom, dad, step-mom or something to that effect.)

I do think this is a step in the right direction. It's more inclusive but not all-inclusive.
true. a much better form would say "parent/guardian". of course, some people on this thread would still be PO about this, but as you said, it's a step in the right direction.

people, you have to remember, we're talking about a passport form here. most people in this country have never filled one of these out and likely never will! maybe if more grandparents and guardians find themselves in this situation, they can protest to have the forms change as well to include non-parental guardians
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:49 PM
 
10,448 posts, read 12,509,144 times
Reputation: 12598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
So why do the other sides feelings matter? I keep getting the "me, me, me" thing and "why are you so selfish" What about the other side? Why re they not selfish? Why are they not all about "me, me, me"?
Because "parent" is more inclusive. All mothers are parents but not all parents are mothers.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:50 PM
 
75 posts, read 60,572 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
So why do the other sides feelings matter? I keep getting the "me, me, me" thing and "why are you so selfish" What about the other side? Why re they not selfish? Why are they not all about "me, me, me"?
Because they're not.
I've said it repeatedly.
It is LOGICAL to change it. It includes more people, and makes it simpler from a technical standpoint as well.
It is ILLOGICAL to keep it. Keeping it excludes people, and makes unnecessary restrictions for the sake of people feeling good about being a mom/dad.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:50 PM
 
3,681 posts, read 6,294,265 times
Reputation: 1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dampylle View Post
Slippery Slope is actually a specific form of Fallacy... a well presented Fallacy is still a Fallacy. If you simply present several extreme possibilities in a disjointed manor with no logical evidence to support and prove each in the chain then claim an extreme outcome... it is still Fallacy no matter how well you word or present it.

Teaching of neutral terms does not in of itself preclude the use of specific terms either though... Using the term Parent does not preclude the use of the term Mother, it simply favors a more inclusive usage.

Claiming the use of inclusive and neutral terms will lead to exclusive or specific terms not being used at all is to say the very least a drastic leap... teaching neutral terms likewise does not mean we are not teaching specific terms (claiming it is without proof and evidence is false cause fallacy by the way)

So again... fallacy is not logic, fallacy is not proof, fallacy is by definition a flawed or skewed presentation that does not truly prove a point.
Have you read the book, "Que*ring Elementary Education," which has a foreward by Kevin Jennings, Safe Schools Czar? It outlines how to teach elementary students to grow up gender neutral. Have you read the book? Do you know who Jennings is? Do you think he is holding a rather influential position right now?
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:51 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,760,000 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by maja View Post
Have you read the book, "Que*ring Elementary Education," which has a foreward by Kevin Jennings, Safe Schools Czar? It outlines how to teach elementary students to grow up gender neutral. Have you read the book? Do you know who Jennings is? Do you think he is holding a rather influential position right now?
Uh, yeah. You've mentioned that at least five times now.

Notice that no one is taking your homophobic bait.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,456,673 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
I think you're just trying to be argumentative for the hell of it. There's no logic to what you're saying. It's all just silly, emotional cries about how no one cares about your opinion and your feelings. Please.

Nope just trying to show both sides and to understand why one is any more important then the other. If no one cares about my feelings why should I care about anyone else? Don't you get it. It is a bit hard to call someone selfish when you are acting that way yourself. Not you but in general. People cry because they want it changed and people cry because they don't. Who is to say who is right and who is to say whose feelings should be considered about another.

I am being told over and over that it is not about me and I am selfish but why are the people wanting to change it not being selfish and making it about them?
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Long Beach, CA
195 posts, read 186,905 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
So why do the other sides feelings matter? I keep getting the "me, me, me" thing and "why are you so selfish" What about the other side? Why re they not selfish? Why are they not all about "me, me, me"?
Because by definition a neutral or inclusive term is not specific... it is not about "me" it is about everyone and it is inclusive of all... where as the view you are presenting is not.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:54 PM
 
75 posts, read 60,572 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Nope just trying to show both sides and to understand why one is any more important then the other. If no one cares about my feelings why should I care about anyone else? Don't you get it. It is a bit hard to call someone selfish when you are acting that way yourself. Not you but in general. People cry because they want it changed and people cry because they don't. Who is to say who is right and who is to say whose feelings should be considered about another.

I am being told over and over that it is not about me and I am selfish but why are the people wanting to change it not being selfish and making it about them?
Already been explained repeatedly. Start reading.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:54 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,760,000 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Nope just trying to show both sides and to understand why one is any more important then the other. If no one cares about my feelings why should I care about anyone else? Don't you get it. It is a bit hard to call someone selfish when you are acting that way yourself. Not you but in general. People cry because they want it changed and people cry because they don't. Who is to say who is right and who is to say whose feelings should be considered about another.

I am being told over and over that it is not about me and I am selfish but why are the people wanting to change it not being selfish and making it about them?
I find your comments comical and trollish at this point.

Here's my response: You lost. The form has been changed. And it was a battle you were never even aware of until you read about it here. If it bothers you so much, call your representative, and try to not be too offended when he or she responds with laughter.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:56 PM
 
Location: California
37,199 posts, read 42,435,442 times
Reputation: 35066
Quote:
I am being told over and over that it is not about me and I am selfish but why are the people wanting to change it not being selfish and making it about them?
It makes better business sense. The general public, no matter how they personally feel about things, don't get to make the decisions.
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