Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-07-2011, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,462,279 times
Reputation: 1208

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Brilliant View Post
Because your desire to keep it unchanged is based off of emotion, and not logic.

It is logical to include every possible combination of parent by removing gender restrictions from the form, in several different ways.
It is illogical to exclude same-sex couples simply for the sake of moms who want to feel vindicated for carrying a kid around in their body for 9 months.

Logic is more important than emotion.

For someone trying to play devil's advocate, you're certainly trying hard to ignore any possible answers that make your argument null.
In most places I go, someone who argues and ignores arguments just for the sake of continuing an argument isn't called "Devil's Advocate". They're called "Trolls".

No I can see both sides. Many here can not. Sorry that you find that "trollish" I have been here way longer then you and I assure you I am, no troll. It is possible to see and argue both sides of an issue. The point is why are the feelings of some more important then others? I have answered the questions, I can not help that you do not like the answers. That the answers some how to not fit what you think they should.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-07-2011, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,484,914 times
Reputation: 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post

And why does any other group deserve what they want but others do not. Please tell me what groups are allowed to make demands and which ones are not.
Feeling discriminated against? How's that shoe fitting now that it's on your foot?

So what you're a mom? You're also possibly a aunt or a sister or a daughter or a cousin. You're lots of things to lots of different people.

But to the government, all they care about in this instance is that you are a parent.

Being a parent on a government form does not keep you from being mom, aunt, cousin, sister, daughter, wife, doctor, lawyer or Indian Chief.

It's utterly bemusing why this is so difficult for you to grasp. And equally befuddling as to why the hell it matters so much, let alone at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,462,279 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Brilliant View Post
Because they're not.
I've said it repeatedly.
It is LOGICAL to change it. It includes more people, and makes it simpler from a technical standpoint as well.
It is ILLOGICAL to keep it. Keeping it excludes people, and makes unnecessary restrictions for the sake of people feeling good about being a mom/dad.

I know what you said. And to YOU it is logical to others it is not. What makes you right and them wrong?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:00 PM
 
18,550 posts, read 19,218,385 times
Reputation: 15955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
No I can see both sides. Many here can not. Sorry that you find that "trollish" I have been here way longer then you and I assure you I am, no troll. It is possible to see and argue both sides of an issue. The point is why are the feelings of some more important then others? I have answered the questions, I can not help that you do not like the answers. That the answers some how to not fit what you think they should.

I think the answer to why it was changed has been stated, the "fabric' of our country is no longer, as a whole is able to check the box mother & or father. parent is a better general descriptions as it fits more families than does mom and dad. very simple
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,462,279 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
I find your comments comical and trollish at this point.

Here's my response: You lost. The form has been changed. And it was a battle you were never even aware of until you read about it here. If it bothers you so much, call your representative, and try to not be too offended when he or she responds with laughter.

Clearly you have not read because I have said countless time I could care less I simply said I could understand another posters feelings and explained why. There is nothing to lose, this is a debate board not a contest. But play away.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Long Beach, CA
195 posts, read 187,138 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Nope just trying to show both sides and to understand why one is any more important then the other. If no one cares about my feelings why should I care about anyone else? Don't you get it. It is a bit hard to call someone selfish when you are acting that way yourself. Not you but in general. People cry because they want it changed and people cry because they don't. Who is to say who is right and who is to say whose feelings should be considered about another.

I am being told over and over that it is not about me and I am selfish but why are the people wanting to change it not being selfish and making it about them?
Simple version

If the change can be explained and supported from a purely logical basis such as efficiency, general legal practice, clerical, or simple streamlining... you can not truly prove it is because people demanded a neutral term. Likewise a neutral term does not alienate either group and since it includes both can not truly be deemed selfish.

On the other hand a usage or phrasing that does exclude any portion of a group can be argued to be selfish if demanded or supported by the group it includes without concern for the portion it does not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,462,279 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
It makes better business sense. The general public, no matter how they personally feel about things, don't get to make the decisions.
Ok an explain that actually makes sense. Not based on feelings, emotion or the desire to appease one group over another.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:04 PM
 
75 posts, read 60,643 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
I know what you said. And to YOU it is logical to others it is not. What makes you right and them wrong?
Because they're not using logic. I am.

And know what?
You can't even use "Herp derp you're only saying what you want to happen."
Because guess what?
It won't affect me. I live in Canada. I am more of a neutral party than any American, because no matter which side wins out, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.
So I'm not looking at this in a biased sense of "I think this is how it should be because this is what I want."
I'm looking at it with the unbiased "This is how it should be because this way makes far more sense than the other, regardless of personal feelings of either side."

For someone who loves to swing around the "I'm just looking at both sides" club, you don't seem to be doing so. You're completely ignoring the factual logic of making it Parent/Parent rather than Mother/Father.

You are not being a devil's advocate. You're being a troll.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,024 posts, read 15,417,769 times
Reputation: 8163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
No I can see both sides. Many here can not. Sorry that you find that "trollish" I have been here way longer then you and I assure you I am, no troll. It is possible to see and argue both sides of an issue. The point is why are the feelings of some more important then others? I have answered the questions, I can not help that you do not like the answers. That the answers some how to not fit what you think they should.
You STILL aren't getting it. seriously, go back and read. really, worst devil's advocate EVER. you're not even remotely attempting to see the logical side in this

to repeat:

EVERYONE IS BEING INCLUDED AND REPRESENTED IN THIS CHANGE. NO ONE GROUP OR TYPE OF PARENTING IS BEING PREFERRED OVER ANOTHER BECAUSE THE TERM "PARENT" CAN BE APPLIED TO ALL!

the other side is reacting w/ emotion, not logic. they're reacting to the change w/o seeing the greater reasoning behind it. they're failing to see that this isn't about one group trumping another, is about including as many types of people as possible so ALL feel included.

I'm sorry if people are sad that they're no longer seen as "mother" or "father" on some silly form. too bad for them. frankly, it's not about them, it about the people wanting to be included at all, people who, up to this point, were explicitly excluded.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,919,782 times
Reputation: 27720
It's along the same lines as you can't call the mailman the mailman cause it could be a woman.
It's along the same lines as you can't call the garbageman the garbageman cause it could be a woman.
But the government has only changed the job description titles.

Get the drift.... ?
And yes, it is about you. You see the other groups are not going to live in the shadows anymore.
They are speaking up and getting the attention of the government who are bringing these changes forward.

Maybe in the privacy of your home you can still be Mom & Dad but in this new global world you are just a "parent". globalize, neutralize, homogenize and spit out the same interchangeable part.."parent" regardless of the input.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top