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Old 01-07-2011, 09:12 PM
 
7 posts, read 9,951 times
Reputation: 11

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
So why do the other sides feelings matter? I keep getting the "me, me, me" thing and "why are you so selfish" What about the other side? Why re they not selfish? Why are they not all about "me, me, me"?
Because they are not going "me me me me" they doing it for "everyone everyone everyone". Wanting to restrict it to just "mother and father" instead of "parent for everyone" is just you being selfish in not wanting others to be called parents so you can have some special feeling of being called mother..
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:21 PM
 
75 posts, read 60,429 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Because I like to debate? I thought that is what we were suppose to do here?
Fact: Cohesive and inarguable points have been made to support the Parent/Parent form.
Fact: You continue to argue against that, despite not actually having any grounds on which to argue.
Fact: Trolls string along arguments without actually having a good argument just for the sake of arguing.

Deduction: Figure out where I'm going with this.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:21 PM
 
7 posts, read 9,951 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Clearly you have not read because I have said countless time I could care less I simply said I could understand another posters feelings and explained why. There is nothing to lose, this is a debate board not a contest. But play away.
Except you don't look at both sides.

Obviously you do care because if you could care less that means you could care less than you do now.

So obviously you care.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Over There
5,094 posts, read 5,442,950 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
You STILL aren't getting it. seriously, go back and read. really, worst devil's advocate EVER. you're not even remotely attempting to see the logical side in this

to repeat:

EVERYONE IS BEING INCLUDED AND REPRESENTED IN THIS CHANGE. NO ONE GROUP OR TYPE OF PARENTING IS BEING PREFERRED OVER ANOTHER BECAUSE THE TERM "PARENT" CAN BE APPLIED TO ALL!

the other side is reacting w/ emotion, not logic. they're reacting to the change w/o seeing the greater reasoning behind it. they're failing to see that this isn't about one group trumping another, is about including as many types of people as possible so ALL feel included.

I'm sorry if people are sad that they're no longer seen as "mother" or "father" on some silly form. too bad for them. frankly, it's not about them, it about the people wanting to be included at all, people who, up to this point, were explicitly excluded.

Believe me I know what the issue is. Everyone will be included, yes I get it. Everyone needs to feel included in every aspect of live and every aspect of being I get it. It is IMPOSSIBLE but I get we have to try and force it to happen. Got it. Does it makes sense to change two words in a document to achieve it? IMO no. I think it is a complete waste of time and money. That the government would even be concerned about it with the mess we are in amazes me. As many have pointed out "it is just a document" what is the big deal?
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:26 PM
 
75 posts, read 60,429 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Believe me I know what the issue is. Everyone will be included, yes I get it. Everyone needs to feel included in every aspect of live and every aspect of being I get it. It is IMPOSSIBLE but I get we have to try and force it to happen. Got it. Does it makes sense to change two words in a document to achieve it? IMO no. I think it is a complete waste of time and money. That the government would even be concerned about it with the mess we are in amazes me. As many have pointed out "it is just a document" what is the big deal?
No. You don't get it. You have not been getting it. You probably never will get it. I bolded the important bit that shows this.

It is not about "feeling" included. It is about actually being able to put down on a form that you are a parent without having to call yourself the opposite gender for no good reason. It is about a father not having to call himself a mother because some people feel that they're more important if they're called a mother than a parent. It is about making it a simpler and easier process on the processing side of the... process by not forcing gender-specific titles. This is what everybody has been arguing. You have obviously not been paying attention.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Long Beach, CA
195 posts, read 186,537 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Queen View Post
Does it makes sense to change two words in a document to achieve it? IMO no. I think it is a complete waste of time and money. That the government would even be concerned about it with the mess we are in amazes me. As many have pointed out "it is just a document" what is the big deal?
Except several people have pointed out reasons why the change will actually reduce the need to manually recheck and verify altered forms, why it will simplify and expedite the data entry of these forms, and thus why the alteration will actually save money in terms of man hours which will offset any cost to alter the forms and likely net overall reductions in the long term.

Likewise the alteration makes it more difficult for certain types of lawsuits to be levied and thus reduces legal costs incurred by fighting lawsuits both valid or frivolous by providing an easy way out through the use of inclusive terms.

In short... The change is more inclusive and actually will reduce costs in several ways.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
8,346 posts, read 7,048,492 times
Reputation: 2874
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
It's along the same lines as you can't call the mailman the mailman cause it could be a woman.
It's along the same lines as you can't call the garbageman the garbageman cause it could be a woman.
No, it's not.

Quote:
Maybe in the privacy of your home you can still be Mom & Dad but in this new global world you are just a "parent". globalize, neutralize, homogenize and spit out the same interchangeable part.."parent" regardless of the input.
You say "globalize" like it's a bad thing.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langlen View Post
No, it's not.



You say "globalize" like it's a bad thing.
Only if you let it be a bad thing.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:51 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,264,759 times
Reputation: 9252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Brilliant View Post
No. You don't get it. You have not been getting it. You probably never will get it. I bolded the important bit that shows this.

It is not about "feeling" included. It is about actually being able to put down on a form that you are a parent without having to call yourself the opposite gender for no good reason.
And who would have to do that? I thought this wasn't an issue about homosexual couples with kids?

Quote:
It is about a father not having to call himself a mother because some people feel that they're more important if they're called a mother than a parent.
So again, an issue surrounding gay couples with kids?

Quote:
It is about making it a simpler and easier process on the processing side of the... process by not forcing gender-specific titles. This is what everybody has been arguing. You have obviously not been paying attention.[/b]
Not even close, it's about protecting the feelers of those who can't figure out how to fill out a form for anything unless their specific home life "issues" are spelled out for them and their Parent #1 and Parent #2 can feel justified and celebrate one more win.

Got any Greek friends with 15+ letters in their last name (and their first names aren't super short either) who can't fit their names in the spaces "that be" on many, many forms? Where's the extra blocks for a few more letters for them? How insulting that they have to shorten their names to "fit in".
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:00 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,685,125 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdustmaker View Post
Not even close, it's about protecting the feelers of those who can't figure out how to fill out a form for anything unless their specific home life "issues" are spelled out for them and their Parent #1 and Parent #2 can feel justified and celebrate one more win.

Got any Greek friends with 15+ letters in their last name (and their first names aren't super short either) who can't fit their names in the spaces "that be" on many, many forms? Where's the extra blocks for a few more letters for them? How insulting that they have to shorten their names to "fit in".
Hmm. You sound bitter about the attempt to include everyone. That stems from insecurity, you know.

For the record, the U.S. Passport application allows for last names of up to 35 characters, so your Greek friends need not worry.
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