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Thanks for the correction. And thanks for emphasizing my point that even the witness said he was lucky he didn't actually shoot the guy by mistake!
And of course an innocent person would quickly drop a gun under such circumstances. If it really had been the shooter, there's no telling what that lunatic might have done and the witness could be dead, himself now! I love people who think they know everything.
I don't know what you know about guns, but you aren't supposed to pull the trigger until you are absolutely certain you have the right target. Any responsible gun owner knows this.
Do you think Loughner was an avid reader of "Kos"? If not, then what's your problem? I'm sure you must insist that Palin had no responsibility in this shooting.
I certainly don't believe that any words of Palin had anything to do with this crime. I also don't think that her little thing that indicated the Blue Dogs who voted against Pelosi's wants should be targeted as any more likely the cause of this shooting than the words of Daily Kos that indicated that many Democrats, over 100 of them, would have to be taken care of in primaries or other ways caused him to shoot these people.
I would think that he would be more likely to read Kos than any of Palin's words since he read and really liked Karl Marx. Marx and Kos believe too many of the same things.
Actually I am saying that words from either side didn't have a lot to do with this crime since the boy had been talking to his peers about his one talk with her. He even pointed out that she had sent him a reply. This kid was crazy and I guess you are convinced that shutting the right up is the only way to keep Marx worshiping crazies from shooting people. If that is not right then I wonder why you are so much against them. Do you have any idea what one of those guys said yesterday about what happens if they are silenced by the left? I can give you a place to hear Glenn Beck talk about that if you are interested in hearing it from his mouth rather than hearing his words after Media Matters has twisted them.
I saw an interview of the guy yesterday, and HE, in fact, said that initially he saw the man with the gun and thought that was the shooter. He said he told the man to "drop it," and the man did. At that point he realized that the shooter was on the ground and that the man you had the gun had helped take it away from the shooter. At that point he started helping the people who were trying to hold the shooter down.
Also, if you look at Huggington Post under the life updates to this story, you will find an excerpt from the interview with the man.
Darn, I accused you of getting your Glenn Beck words from Media Matters and here you admit that your source of "news" is the same one Obama uses, Huffington Post.
News, Limbaugh, Beck: Don't Blame Us for Jared Loughner
Look...
As much as I find Beck, Limbaugh, and other hate-radio jocks distasteful, it's true that they are not responsible for this lunatic, Loughner. These psychos do their deeds pretty much in isolation.
You are more couragous than others, that much is clear. But I still do not understand why you are yammering about Christianity. No interest. None.
So then:
Firstly, can you tell me exactly what "violent imagery and ideas" were espoused? Please do not cite the map. I will just cite the Democratic one.
Secondly, do you have clear evidence that this nut was listening to pundits and cited them as influential? Did he have Limbaugh or (gulp) Palin's books lying around?
Thirdly, can you explain why someone who we both agree was mentally unstable would need any motivation beyond their own deranged mental state to act violently?
Finally, are you advocating that Americans curtail their cherished freedom of speech and expression on the off chance that a solitary nutjob will pull a trigger while the other 285 million Americans do nothing more than snicker?
Btw- I have no love for Limbaugh and honestly despise Palin (do a search to verify). But I simply do not see a connection.
Palin and Beck are very vocal about being Christians. THAT'S the connection.
I am not advocating curtailing "freedom of speech." I'm saying that individuals have a responsibility for what their words "inspire."
The mentally ill do not usually live in a complete vacuum. Loughner did not. He clearly used the Internet, if nothing else. He attended a community college. He talked to people from time to time. Do you think mentally disturbed people are not at all influenced by events which take place around them and in the world? Plus there are many levels of mental illness. I find it interesting that Loughner clearly appears to be mentally ill, and I also find it interesting that he, at some level, managed to be "together" enough to NOT TALK to authorities after his arrest. And he asked for a lawyer. That indicates some awareness of his situation for sure. He invoked his right to have an attorney.
btw, where did I say the democratic map was any less offensive than Palin's map, IMO? The only difference I see there is Palin's words..."don't retreat, reload." The airwaves are FULL of violent words and imagery. If you can't discern that, perhaps you've been far too desensitized.
Actually, according to what he said in the interview, HE DID ARRIVE EARLIER, however, he went inside the drug store for a few minutes. He said when he came out, everything happened really fast. He saw the man holding the gun. He said he had already taken the safety off his gun. He said he told the man with the gun to "drop it," and the man dropped the gun. GOOD THINKING on the part of the man holding the gun! Therefore, when the man dropped the gun, Zamorda (I think was his name) realized someone was being held on the ground, etc, etc., etc.
Zamorda also said in the interview that he believed it was a good thing for people to carry guns and that if more people carried guns they would have a better chance of stopping something like what happened. However, it seems that he had a gun, was ready to use it, but that didn't stop Loughner from shooting anyway. I'm sure Loughner was aware that MOST PEOPLE in Arizona are ARMED.
What is the percentage of armed Arizonians? Surely you have it handy since you said most of them are.
If Zamadora would have been there when the shooting started he would have stopped it. And he didn't shoot anyone did he? He told the guy to drop it and he did. DUH
Interesting that not EVERYONE that has a gun wants to kill somebody. Most people don't buy guns for that purpose!!!
I don't know what you know about guns, but you aren't supposed to pull the trigger until you are absolutely certain you have the right target. Any responsible gun owner knows this.
I know plenty about guns. I've shot them many times, myself.
The witness was entirely certain he had the shooter when he shoved him up against the wall. But even that absolute certainty didn't cause him to ever even pull his gun out of his pocket. For all the good the gun actually did, he may as well not have had it on him at all.
There would have been bullets zinging from all directions in all directions. It would make the most intense Hollywood movie shoot-out look like kids game.
Bodies everywhere, some dead, some wounded.
But that's what many Americans want to see. Movies and TV are getting boring, so why not have excitement in real life?
Maybe you can help Perlier out with the number of Arizonians who are armed at any given time. Since the state has to give permission to carry surely statistics are available.
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News, Limbaugh, Beck: Don't Blame Us for Jared Loughner
