What I bought at Wal*Mart tonight. (unemployment rate, Brown, downturn)

[filihok]

Originally Posted by Steve Bagu

What many people do not understand is that a small business owner buys a few items for a fixed price and sells at a certain markup. Wallmart buys in the high number of case lots. They will sell at a lower price then the Mom and Pop store but make their profit margin based upon a volume in sales.

As I have posted in the past, being in the Grocery/Liquor Inventory trade for 23 yrs and owner for 15 of those yrs I had contact with MGMT and know the workings of the Retail Trade. I dealt with large chains along with many small independent operations.

Buying power and Volume is the key in any operation. Making say 25% or more profit margin on a single item sounds nice...better to make 15% profit while selling a 100 items is a lot better. Setting up large displays will sell itself when properly displayed.

Need I go further?

I don't know if you NEED to, but you certainly could.

Mom & Pop probably have one store. The money they make from this store each day/week/month/year whatever feeds them, clothes them, pays their mortgage/etc...

WalMart has several thousand stores. One store can operate at a loss and WalMart will suffer no consequence.

Suppose Mom & Pop make 25% at their hardware store.

WalMart can not only buy hardware goods at a cheaper price than Mom & Pop, Walmart can also sell those goods for 0% profit.

Mom & Pop can't compete.

[Ceece]

I only go into Walmart occasionally, maybe 2-3 times a year, usually for a specific cheap thing. I can't imagine why I'd go more often.

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by rodomonte

Amazing that no one in this thread realizes the geo-political implications of buying Chinese goods at Walmart or anywhere else. China is our enemy, and yet we are underwriting her economy and military buildup that will eventually result in a serious military conflict. China sends spies by the dozen into our country for both commercial and military espionage. China hackers exploit weaknesses in our civilian and military computer systems, and probably have software ready to shutdown our infrastructure in the right situation.

We are sowing the seeds of our own destruction.

As Lenin said, "The capitalist will sell us the rope we use to hang him."

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by SLCPUNK

Walmart is just nasty, regardless of where their products come from. I only go if I'm in a pinch.

that depends on the store and where you live. I am not a fequent Wal Mart shopper, but I do wonder in every few weeks and we love Sams, but we live in WalMart country, that does make a difference. Our stores are clean, large and well staffed. This holds true with many Wal Marts in Texas. So can you explain what you mean by nasty?

I might add, the Walton family, like the Tyson family give a hell of a lot to chraties.

Nita

[buzzpost]

Originally Posted by nmnita

that depends on the store and where you live. I am not a fequent Wal Mart shopper, but I do wonder in every few weeks and we love Sams, but we live in WalMart country, that does make a difference. Our stores are clean, large and well staffed. This holds true with many Wal Marts in Texas. So can you explain what you mean by nasty?

I might add, the Walton family, like the Tyson family give a hell of a lot to chraties.

Nita

Spot on. The WalMart in our neighborhood is exceptionally clean, with good produce (much of it organic) and staffed with really helpful, nice people.

[swagger]

Originally Posted by Chromekitty

I do own my own business

Based on your comments in this and other threads, I find that very, very hard to believe.

Tell me - is it your sole source of income? Or is it something you do on the side, like Mary Kay or Amway, while another member of the household is supporting you?

[swagger]

Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale

Think of it like a trip to the zoo

That's kind of how I feel about this forum sometimes...

[swagger]

Originally Posted by GuyNTexas

Yes ... WalMart ... the TSA .... FDA ... government in general, large corporate interests ... you're very consistent.

What are you talking about? Whatever point you're trying to make, make it clearly and BACK IT UP.

Originally Posted by GuyNTexas

Manufacturers are no different than anyone else when it comes to dealing with competitors, and competition gets very intense for contracts with an operation the size of a WalMart. And there is no shortage of stories regarding the strong armed tactics WalMart routinely engages in with their suppliers, many of whom ratchet up to meet volume and delivery requirements, and once they do, their viability depends on maintaining those contracts to survive.

That's their problem - they put all their eggs in one basket.

The last company I worked for was a software publisher. They had a product that they'd been publishing for many years. It was stable, popular and had a large potential customer base. They decided to drop that product and focus on a single product with a very limited potential customer base, but each sale is worth six to seven figures. Since then, they've gone from over 100 employees to about 10 today, and they had to move their office to a smaller and less prestigious location. They put all their eggs in one basket by dropping their bread and butter product, and they probably only have five years left, if that.

Nobody forces these companies to do business with Wal*Mart. It's their choice, and they know the risks. Your beef isn't (at least, logically shouldn't be) with Wal*Mart, but with these manufacturers that make bad (in your eyes) decisions.

Originally Posted by GuyNTexas

Beautiful ... the Cato Institute ... a cesspool of schizophrenic pro big corporate liberals.

Did you read the study? Would you like to contest any of the specific details contained within it?

No? You'd rather just dismiss it based on the source?

No problem. Just remember that the next time somebody dismisses something purely because it's posted on HuffPo, MM, etc. If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

Originally Posted by GuyNTexas

the big chain operations hold tremendous advantages over small competitors, including advertising budgets that small business cannot begin to touch

I wouldn't (and didn't) dispute that. I said that small businesses can compete by offering what the big chain stores can't. That's indisputable, and can be seen in virtually every city and town in the country. Been to a mom and pop restaurant? Why didn't McDonald's put them out of business? They "hold tremendous advantages over small competitors, including advertising budgets that small business cannot begin to touch," right? How about the local flooring store that's still there despite the presence of a Home Depot or Lowes? What about the car audio shop I went to for a new stereo? Shouldn't Best Buy or Fry's have gotten my business, based on your theory?

As I said, in most cases, small businesses can survive - even thrive - if they know how to compete with the big players. There are exceptions, and I'm sure you'd be happy to point them out so I'll save you the google time and concede that. It's NOT a guarantee, though, that small businesses are doomed to fail when a big store opens up, and savvy business owners that understand how the game is played on the new field will usually do just fine. The ones that fail are usually those that don't change their strategy when the 300lb gorilla gets into the game.

Originally Posted by GuyNTexas

in the small rural towns all across America, business are folding like lawn chairs inside 6 months of the opening of a WalMart.

And someone else (or even the same entrepreneur) opens up a new one, leaving no net job losses.

[sundrop]

Originally Posted by swagger

Based on your comments in this and other threads, I find that very, very hard to believe.

Tell me - is it your sole source of income? Or is it something you do on the side, like Mary Kay or Amway, while another member of the household is supporting you?

I could care less if you believe it or not. We are self employed and do not depend on anyone else, we are self supporting.

I find it hard to believe that YOU are self employed spouting the things you do, but at the end of the day what I believe doesn't really matter and vice versa.

[Austinitegirl]

Originally Posted by swagger

Thank you for your well thought out response that wasn't simply anti-Wal*Mart hyperbole, which is what most people that hold your position would have spewed. I respectfully disagree with your position as far as Wal*Mart is concerned, however.

And thank you for your very cogent response that (mostly) didn't resort to put downs or intelligence questioning. Although I largely disagree with you - I appreciate your thoughtful response trying to logically present your position in this discussion. So rare on this forum...

Originally Posted by swagger

If you go through most of the Wal*Mart threads in this forum, you'll find that I'm usually actively supporting them. They're giving consumers what they want, at very competitive prices. That's why they're so successful, and it's the only reason they're so successful.

Although after going back and re-reading my post and seeing that it can definitely be interpreted that way, I really didn't mean to single out WalMart. I named WM in my post b/c the OP had cited it as an example of a place one can purchase a wide variety of American-made products (aka supporting American products and manufacturing). I could've made similar statements about Target, Home Depot, etc. I was simply trying to open up the conversation into a larger discussion about supporting American businesses.

Originally Posted by swagger

Wal*Mart doesn't force any other company to do anything. Manufacturers have the option of not selling to Wal*Mart if Wal*Mart isn't going to pay the price they want for their product. It's the manufacturers wanting their products in front of Wal*Mart shoppers that cause them to make decisions that may not be in the best interest of our country as a whole.

I think GuyNTexas did an excellent job of making a counter argument to this, and I agree with him 100%. Unfortunately, what your statement here lacks is an acknowledgement of Business Economics 101. A product's cost is driven by the market to purchase it - i.e. how much a vendor is willing to pay for a product is what a manufactuer will sell it for. Of course they have a choice - no one holds a gun to their head, but selling your product for a price that doesn't cover your manufacturing costs or not selling it all isn't much of a choice. And as GuyNTexas said, once they start selling to WM at below-overhead costs, they have no choice but to reduce workforce in order to remain competitive.

Originally Posted by swagger

Ultimately, your post reeks of the same union rhetoric that has people claiming that Wal*Mart is some "evil" (your term) company. Despite your tempered approach, the message is the same, and it's one I've heard a thousand times before.

I suggest you spend fifteen minutes yourself and read "Has Wal-Mart Buried Mom and Pop?," and see if you can understand that entrepreneurship is flourishing, despite the "big box" stores.

For what this is worth - I've never belonged to a union, I know noone in a union, and I have very mixed feelings about them (a topic for another thread). So if my thoughts come across that way - it's pure coincidence.

My feelings about big businesses and corporations driving out smaller businesses come from a wide variety of personal experiences, including the situation with my father that I described previously, my father-in-law who owned his own small business, my husband who worked both for a small familly-owned computer business, and a HUGE one (again to be unnamed). He lost his job as a customer service rep in 2003 at the HUGE worldwide computer company because his entire division was being moved to Bangalor India in an attempt for that particular computer company to continue offering entire desktop sets for $499.

In that particular case, were there American-run call centers who could handle the computer company's business? Of course, and (in fact) they still have a couple of American call centers (interestingly, in the old manufacturing belt locations where deep poverty drives to workforce to be willing to work for minimum wage), but most of their call centers are now in Bangalor India. Why? Because there - employees are willing to work for pennies on the dollar, and don't require benefits (insurance, stock options, etc.). This particular computer company can now offer you a complete tricked-out desktop set for $499 because by moving their workforce overseas, they slashed their operating costs by MILLIONS.

Here in the States, we silly ol' spoil't Americans demand absurd luxuries like health insurance benefits and fair wages, which means that NO American call-center provider can offer services for the steeply discounted prices they offer in India, where daily wages in uber-modern cities like Bangalor hover somewhere around $15/DAY - with no benefits or fringes.

So tell me honestly - how are we suppose to keep American jobs in this country and/or promote American products when large corporations or big box retailers are outsourcing services/products in 3rd world countries for those kinds of absurdly low costs. There really is no online article that supports that position. I'm sorry, but there isn't.

Originally Posted by swagger

The little guy can compete with the big, scary, "evil" companies, but they have to be willing and able to adapt to a changing market.

I think this statement can be true in certain situtations in large cities where local businesses are supported by the city/state governments. I feel lucky to live in an awesome city like Austin, Texas, which is HUGELY supportive of local businesses, and we have a wide variety of them.

But, as I pointed out in my OP, many folks who live in smaller towns don't have much of a choice - case-in-point, my Dad, who lives in small-town Kentucky. The WalMart is it - they don't even HAVE a Target. So in that case, how is a small business suppose to compete??

My dad tried to run a business in that town, but he had to shut the doors a couple of years later. Why? Because you have a finite amount of business in a small town. X number of people to purchase X number of products. Tell me honestly again - how are mom 'n pop suppose to compete when WalMart, as a corporation, can afford to purchase mustard by the TON, which then gets shipped to all their stores around the country. Even with larger overhead costs, the sheer tonnage of products they are able to purchase at one time allows them to offer it for sale at a fraction of the price mom n' pop can. Again - that has absolutely nothing to do with adaptability or customer service - that has to do with basic Business Economics principles.

As I also said in my post, I do understand that WalMart is often a necessary evil, and I concede that they do bring jobs to an area, but again, you can't deny the other Economics 101 fact - when they drive out other businesses, where else are folks suppose to work? And having once worked for WalMart - I can tell you, it ain't much of a job (or a choice).