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What theology do you follow that tells you that there is no distinction between a mortal and a venial sin?
Most Christians don't subscribe to this even outside of the Catholic Church.
Catholics generally are the ones who believe in mortal sins versus "everyday" sins. I am not Catholic, I'm Anglican. If God did not forgive murderers, He would not have kept Cain alive.
The ultimate control of a woman is to control her womb. Republicans feel they have a right to determine who is to live and who is to die. They will insist that fetus' live because they want to be in a superior position to decide such things, and on the other hand, are for capital punishment . . . they like to play "god" in that way.
Only THEY have the say of who is going to live and who is going to die and it is all predicated on power - the power of the white man to make the rules in society - to hell with gays and to hell with women. Literally. It says so in their bible.
The ultimate control of a woman is to control her womb. Republicans feel they have a right to determine who is to live and who is to die. They will insist that fetus' live because they want to be in a superior position to decide such things, and on the other hand, are for capital punishment . . . they like to play "god" in that way.
Only THEY have the say of who is going to live and who is going to die and it is all predicated on power - the power of the white man to make the rules in society - to hell with gays and to hell with women. Literally. It says so in their bible.
Oh cry me a river. Some of the most staunch anti-abortion people I know are women, and they don't do it because they are trying to control a woman's womb.
Get your ridiculous nonsense off these boards.
Abortion is obviously an issue over whether or not an unborn child is technically considered an actual person or not. If it is a person, then its "rights"(which is a word that was basically invented by the white man that you despise) should be protected. If it is not a person, then it might be seen as that the woman is technically in ownership of the fetus, and she should have the "right" to choose whether she wants to keep it or trash it.
While gay marriage might seem like a simple religious/moral issue. The reason it has generally been opposed by religion has been that it raises many issues in our society. Gay marriage is generally opposed to the basic necessities of marriage to begin with. Gay-marriage(and homosexuality in general) hurt societies of the past, by lowering birthrates, which were absolutely necessary for their relative strength(go read a little about demographics). And homosexuality raises social issues, such as the role of the man in society, and the interaction of men with each other, and things like changing in front of each other, public restrooms, etc.
It is not a simple issue, and to try to pretend that it is a simple issue doesn't help anyone.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-15-2011 at 08:46 PM..
Oh cry me a river. Some of the most staunch anti-abortion people I know are women, and they don't do it because they are trying to control a woman's womb.
Get your ridiculous nonsense off these boards.
Abortion is obviously an issue over whether or not an unborn child is technically considered an actual person or not. If it is a person, then its "rights"(which is a word that was basically invented by the white man that you despise) should be protected. If it is not a person, then it might be seen as that the woman is technically in ownership of the fetus, and she should have the "right" to choose whether she wants to keep it or trash it.
While gay marriage might seem like a simple religious/moral issue. The reason it has generally been opposed by religion has been that it raises many issues in our society. Gay marriage is generally opposed to the basic necessities of marriage to begin with. Gay-marriage(and homosexuality in general) hurts societies of the past, by lowering birthrates. And homosexuality raises social issues, such as the role of the man in society, and the interaction of men with each other, and things like changing in front of each other, public restrooms, etc.
It is not a simple issue, and to try to pretend that it is a simple issue doesn't help anyone.
The bolded sentence is at the heart of this issue - According to your "rules" my point-of-view would be banned if you had the power.
It is all about power and control. Republicans want to have ultimate control . . . they want to be able to shoot people and other animals whenever the spirit moves them, they want to be able to force women to bear children, they want to ban gays from getting married.
There's no "live and let live" philosophy with them - it is all about nosing in OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS.
With God, yes, it does "get you off the hook." I actually do know several people who would be considered "crazy" as in they are delusional and psychotic. At the time they are doing "wrong" things, they do not understand that what they are doing is wrong.
You are still trying to make peoples decisions seem like simple "right and wrong". Was the invasion of Iraq right or wrong? Were the needless deaths of innocent people in Iraq right or wrong? When you give the death penalty to an innocent man, is that wrong? If a police officer believes you are guilty of a crime, but he has no proof, so he plants fake evidence to convict you. Is he right or wrong? What if he believes what he is doing is right, so he never repents? Does he go to hell?
I highly doubt that you yourself havn't done nothing against the bible. Being that in the Sermon on the mount, jesus said that if you simply look at a person in a lustful way, then you are commiting adultery. What if as you lay dying on the street, a beautiful woman comes by in a dress with no panties on. And right before you die you have a lustful thought and you don't have the time to repent. Do you go to hell?
I know a crazy person personally, and he is religious. He sort of knows he is crazy, but he doesn't always recognize the crazyness of his actions until much later on. I am sure all of us have done things we regret, but we may not regret them till much later. What if we die before we can repent? The eternal oven for us?
Those Irish catholics fighting the Northern Ireland protestants, I don't believe they thought they were going to go to hell for their actions. Nor do I think people like Timothy McVeigh believes he is going to hell. But I am sure others will believe differently.
What you are really saying is, if you believe what you are doing is good, then it is good. If you never learn about Christianity, then you are going to heaven. If you die young, then you are going to heaven. If you do terrible things then feel sorry about them later, then you are going to heaven. And obviously that cannot be what you are really saying.
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Life is not a test like that, in God's eyes. You can't look at it like that. Nobody will have the exact same "life test" as the next guy. Period. But we all have control over how we behave, that is the simple fact. I see where you're going, and I understand what you're saying, but to God, that kind of thing matters not. Please refer to what I previously said in regard to "levels" of sin (i.e., there are none).
I understand that not everyone will have the same "life test" as the next guy. What I am saying is, some people get far more difficult tests than others. So if I get lucky and only have to take the 3rd grade reading test, and you are unlucky and have to take the AP Calculus test. Then should you go to hell if you fail? When, if you had been given the 3rd grade reading test, then you also would have passed. Does that make sense to you?
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Someone who is born into a Christian home still has to commit their life to God, same as someone who was not born into a Christian home. They have heard of the Gospel and do not get a free pass in the manner that those who have not heard of the Gospel would. For example, I was born into a Christian home, I had very religious grandparents and when we lived in Miami, my parents took us to Catholic mass every Sunday. When we relocated, we never went to church. I went sometimes with my grandparents but that was it. As an adult, I rejected God and Christianity and had to find my way back to it. There were periods of my childhood in which I rejected God as well, and I always found my way back. There is no "free pass" to anyone, save those who have never sinned (babies who are unborn) or those who have never heard of Jesus Christ.
What I am saying is, if you had been born into like some crazy Mormon compound, where you basically lived your entire life surrounded by other crazy mormons. Then it would be far easier for you not to "stray" away from "the gospel". If you never heard someone "use the lords name in vain" you would be far less likely to do it yourself. Whereas someone might have been raised in an atheist home, with little exposure to "the gospel", and they would be much more likely to not adopt Christianity, and to do things against "the gospel", since the sort of culture they were raised in was opposed to it.
So you could not use the same stick to measure all men. A just god could not apply his rules in any absolute manner. He must weigh each man based on his actions vs his trials and environment. A just god must look at the real heart of the man, whether or not he tried to do good. Whether or not he wanted to help his fellow man. Not whether or not he followed certain rules to the letter.
When I look at the world, I know my heart is in the right place. I know my strengths and weaknesses. I try to do good for the other people who are forced to live in this place we call Earth.
And I cannot imagine a god that would punish me for eternity, because I didn't sit around kissing his ass all day and night. And I may have gotten angry at him a time or two, when he let bad things happen to the people I care about. And I do not feel bad about it.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-15-2011 at 08:41 PM..
The bolded sentence is at the heart of this issue - According to your "rules" my point-of-view would be banned if you had the power.
It is all about power and control. Republicans want to have ultimate control . . . they want to be able to shoot people and other animals whenever the spirit moves them, they want to be able to force women to bear children, they want to ban gays from getting married.
There's no "live and let live" philosophy with them - it is all about nosing in OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS.
It isn't about power and control. It is about you saying stupid crap when grown-ups are trying to have a grown-up conversation. If you have something to say, don't just start asserting stupidity. The explanation you gave was basically trying to pretend that men are oppressing women, and that is the only reason abortion exists. When I know plenty of women who oppose abortion, and not just because they believe in god or because a man told them they had to, but because they believe that unborn children are an actual human being.
Instead of making any sort of logical statements about the cause and effect, you want to point your finger at a group of people without even really giving a reason for why. It isn't as if your argument "they are trying to control your life" couldn't be used against basically everything the democrats are doing either.
Your spread of misinformation is why people like Jared Loughner kill people. Why don't you go to his youtube page and watch his videos that assert sillyness, without any facts or logic to back them up.
Maybe I should turn you into the feds for being a whackjob.
It isn't about power and control. It is about you saying stupid crap when grown-ups are trying to have a grown-up conversation. If you have something to say, don't just start asserting stupidity. The explanation you gave was basically trying to pretend that men are oppressing women, and that is the only reason abortion exists. When I know plenty of women who oppose abortion, and not just because they believe in god, but because they believe that unborn children are an actual human being.
Instead of making any sort of logical statements about the cause and effect, you want to point your finger at a group of people without even really giving a reason for why. It isn't as if your argument "they are trying to control your life" couldn't be used against basically everything the democrats are doing either.
Your spread of misinformation is why people like Jared Loughner kill people. Why don't you go to his youtube page and watch his videos that assert sillyness, without any facts or logic to back them up.
Maybe I should turn you into the feds for being a whackjob.
You're quite delusional. I won't be conversing with you anymore. Good night.
The ultimate control of a woman is to control her womb. Republicans feel they have a right to determine who is to live and who is to die. They will insist that fetus' live because they want to be in a superior position to decide such things, and on the other hand, are for capital punishment . . . they like to play "god" in that way.
Only THEY have the say of who is going to live and who is going to die and it is all predicated on power - the power of the white man to make the rules in society - to hell with gays and to hell with women. Literally. It says so in their bible.
The Bible says to hell with women ? Who ever you are following get out now!!
Disclaimer: Please stay on topic as much as you can. I don't want this to be yet another gay marriage thread or an abortion thread. Oh for the record, I consider myself to Libertarian and this is no way an insult to either Dems or Repubs :P
Republicans tend to believe we should be in control of own life. We need to take as much responsibility in our own lives and the government should have very little to do with our own lives.
Democrats tend to side with the idea of a more larger government run society. No I don't mean communism or socialism, please don't head that way either :P
..With that said, I find it weird that Republicans are so against gay marriage and abortion? We can all agree that both debates we can all have our own personal opinion on the matters. That's fine. But why would Republicans want to deny abortions and gays a privilege to marry? It seems as if with these two situations, they are ok with the government controlling people's lives?
Republicans (for the most part) believe in a free market, believe in less government for less taxes so we can keep most of our money, they believe in the absolute freedom of speech, they believe people should be allowed to bare arms. They would never want these rights (or many other things) to be taken away so "the government doesn't control it", yet.. these 2 issues are something republicans are totally ok with the government being in control of.
Why is that?
With abortion, the question is when does the life become a human? As a libertarian, would you be okay with parents killing their newborn children at 1 mo old? And if not, why is it that you are okay with government restricting someone's freedom to do that? (Using the logic that you used in your questions).
And, for the record, Republican's 'denying' abortions have never required imprisonment for the women who have undergone abortion procedure. Rather, we are for making abortions illegal in the US so that they are not practiced, except in the cases where it would save a mother's life.
Regarding gay marriage, we, Republicans, still have the crazy ideas that WE THE PEOPLE should make the calls on whether gay marriage, straight marriage, polygamy, etc.... would be legal.
As a Libertarian, would you be against polygamy or incest? Should a brother and a sister have the right to marry? Should a man or a woman be able to marry several men or women at the same time?
The bible says that women should not "speak in church," that they should be controlled by their husbands, that they shall remain subservient. Women are second class citizens in Christianity and all of the other patriarchal religions. Men like this because not only is god a male, but the "holy book" says women are subservient and that men are better. Our entire culture is predicated on these ideas.
Most people do not "get" it at all - they don't see how having this as underlying ideology influences all of their beliefs and points-of-view and politics.
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