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Old 01-14-2011, 05:31 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 9,968,629 times
Reputation: 2799

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
I understand that is what you are saying and agree with that. But you suggested building "camps" and using the Fema camps way out of the way too. Before you think this is a wonderful idea, I ask. Have you ever been in a shelter?

It was up at 6am. Sometimes 5:45am if they decided. You didn't get to say no. Then you get your stuff picked up fast. Really fast since its in the way. I can roll up a blanket and pillows bundle in a couple of minutes. Then you go and get dressed. Fifty women and one large bathroom. If you play it right you don't have to wait outside when they pull out the tables when its cold. Then you get in the breakfast line. Dry doughnouts. kiddy cerial. Milk which may or may not be good. I usually just had a donught if it wasn't too dry and coffee. Then you have to leave. You can go whereever you want but if your not in the residental part you have to take all your stuff. I was lucky and had a car. If you don't you just hide it and hope it hasn't been stolen. I ate breaksast at a fast food place that let you sit around as long as you wanted. Went to the park, not the one everyone else did. Or the library. Dinner at Wendy's. The free food was often past the date it should have been thrown out but when donated that was usually why. Back in line by 5:00. 4:30 is better. Then stand with your stuff and hope you make it. If you do you get in the second line and still might not if they miss counted. Speed getting in line counts.

Then you get a mat and a space. You sit with your stuff and make up your bed. You don't wander. They tell you when your shower is up. Take shower and sit some more. You can talk if you want but you can't go across the room to talk. Lights out at 9:30, sometimes extended to ten. I would lay and read in front of them with a flashlight or sit in the bathroom and read to show them.

Yes, they are a Them.

Then you wake up and start all over again. If your in residental (VERY hard to do) you have to get a job. If you can't find one you have to get on county assistance which must be paid back if your homeless. Then they found various ways of kicking people out of that program and moving them back to the floor. You also have to put in a full day of chores at the shelter. People quit the program when they wanted the chores over work time.

I don't imagine this would be too different in one of these government run camps except it would be worse. You think a fifties/sixties person who has health problems is really going to benefit from this, or a child, or the immense psychological effect it has?

I still harbor immense satisfaction over how the b..ch who decided to kick me awake one day they decided to get us up early got drug tested and fired. I have a home now and its small but feels huge. But the FEAR of it dissapearing never goes away. This is what is happening to people who did make bad decisions and those who didn't. If you get chucked into an institutional situation and do a survival blink of adjustment you will always always remember. What must be remembered is suddenly being homeless is a paragram shift in life and you never forget. You feel like your options are evaporating and taking all of them away is just the worse you could do.

Sorry if this is emotional but I wonder how many who argue this have ever been sleeping on the floor of a shelter somewhere between grateful to get in and silently hissing at the power trips going on around you.
No, but I am familiar with shelter life. It's not easy. I worked for one and volunteered for another in the past.

What I was proposing was more like housing developments, where everyone would have their own space and some privacy.

I now volunteer at another one for homeless youth. While they have rules, they can also sleep in. So all are not the same.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,172,856 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
Ok, that might have been the case then, but what I propose is a work for housing program. As has been suggested, even filling potholes works.

I used to work in a shelter and always took issue with the "empowerment" model. Women would come in and get free shelter and food and not have to look for work. I disagree with this.
What do you tell the county road crews you lay off since you now have homeless people working for their cot instead of that? Do the women with little pre-school kids get a pass since you can't take them along? I didn't bother applying for anytying residental since I was in the process of applying for disability and even one short part time job would nix it. So what would you have done in that situation?

Yes there are people who are homelss by choice, who like to be gypsies and wander from one area to another for their three months. But most are people who are traumatized and trying to survive in hostile territory. If there is an opportunity they'll take it. But not all could go out there and fill potholes, and not all can qualify for the "help" So do you tell them to go out and sleep next to the garbage behind the convience store and hope they tossed out enough to keep alive?
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:47 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 9,968,629 times
Reputation: 2799
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
What do you tell the county road crews you lay off since you now have homeless people working for their cot instead of that? Do the women with little pre-school kids get a pass since you can't take them along? I didn't bother applying for anytying residental since I was in the process of applying for disability and even one short part time job would nix it. So what would you have done in that situation?

Yes there are people who are homelss by choice, who like to be gypsies and wander from one area to another for their three months. But most are people who are traumatized and trying to survive in hostile territory. If there is an opportunity they'll take it. But not all could go out there and fill potholes, and not all can qualify for the "help" So do you tell them to go out and sleep next to the garbage behind the convience store and hope they tossed out enough to keep alive?
Hey, I am not the enemy. I've done my best to help the homeless even though I am not. These are clearly all complicated issues. My idea was to have people volunteer, as I do, to help the community, not necessarily always take away someone else's job. Not only are you helping the community, but you're gaining skills which can translate into an actual job. And as far as children? I believe in birth control and I don't believe in having children unless one can support them. Sure, things happen, but some people just have kids without even thinking things through. This means misery for kids who do NOT deserve it.

It is not just the homeless who are having the problems. There are people who are losing homes, for whatever reason, who cannot feed their kids. There are people who absolutely hate their jobs yet live in fear of losing them. There are the disabled and mentally ill. All in all, it's a giant mess.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:48 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,877,644 times
Reputation: 7365
Night bird no links CNN may have a transcript i don't know. Dec 31st I broke a finger and i can't work just now for it.

When I see Hillary liein thru her teeth I figure something is up, the govt is hiding, and when i see Bill I think the same thing double. Today is over the limit with the both of them on CNN.

I think some move is up and it's being hidden.

Long ago it was said these camps were being built. Most people skoffed it off. Today there is evidence of these camps. With the loss of the economy it's looking like this was no accident to me.

I had wondered how govt would get people to enter freely, as back then those who skoffed the idea all said they wouldn't be willing to go. Well what about NOW?

Many will not prep for a rainy day, they just don't see it. Meanwhile the jobs we have move to China, the dollar grows weaker and people are on the move......... down and downsizing.

Bill gave these people a free ride and too much housing, and i don't believe it was any accident.

One way i see this is in Oct 04 I had a pre approved loan on a 1930's vintage camp, for the asking price of $33,000.oo. I got sick, real sick, and when I came back that camp with out so much as a new nail has the asking prices of $165.000.00.

2 lousey acers. At the same time a tax re-evalue accessment was taking place to 'lower taxes' LOL sure they did that, but they boosted the price of every single place in the state of NH by no less than $100,000.oo dollars!

No tax revenue was lost. That was one hellova trick to play.

BTW that camp needed a D-8 bull dozer more than it needed any new nail.

Oh yeah if we come up with a new CCC, my bet is your kids get to go off to a govt school (education center with a PC name) ending as child labor, but no worries mate since you won't see them again anyway.

Yer wife will be housed in a all female dorm in another CCC camp, and you won't see her again either.

You will eat the same guel as the govt decides is fit for consuption by the nature of the work you do, and at weeks end you will OWE the govt for feeding you that crap.

(not you directly of course a figure of speech)

And last getting out will be one way and only one way and no one doing that will be breathing.

This is a hellova plan. Yeah sure lets just trust in Govt. Oh yeah..... NOT

I am old, i am slow, and i will be taken kicking, screaming and take so many 'enforcers' as I can.

Thar's all sorts of ill mannored names for ME and none are very PC. I can't say that hurts my 'feelings' any. Is that bad?
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:52 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,877,644 times
Reputation: 7365
misty I for one know you mean well. You must have a heck of a good job to be volunterring this much. For every one you can fix 6 more will replace that one.

Handing over the keys to a drunk driver is bad right? Well this Govt is a drunk driver.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:56 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,932,385 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
I understand that is what you are saying and agree with that. But you suggested building "camps" and using the Fema camps way out of the way too. Before you think this is a wonderful idea, I ask. Have you ever been in a shelter?

It was up at 6am. Sometimes 5:45am if they decided. You didn't get to say no. Then you get your stuff picked up fast. Really fast since its in the way. I can roll up a blanket and pillows bundle in a couple of minutes. Then you go and get dressed. Fifty women and one large bathroom. If you play it right you don't have to wait outside when they pull out the tables when its cold. Then you get in the breakfast line. Dry doughnouts. kiddy cerial. Milk which may or may not be good. I usually just had a donught if it wasn't too dry and coffee. Then you have to leave. You can go whereever you want but if your not in the residental part you have to take all your stuff. I was lucky and had a car. If you don't you just hide it and hope it hasn't been stolen. I ate breaksast at a fast food place that let you sit around as long as you wanted. Went to the park, not the one everyone else did. Or the library. Dinner at Wendy's. The free food was often past the date it should have been thrown out but when donated that was usually why. Back in line by 5:00. 4:30 is better. Then stand with your stuff and hope you make it. If you do you get in the second line and still might not if they miss counted. Speed getting in line counts.

Then you get a mat and a space. You sit with your stuff and make up your bed. You don't wander. They tell you when your shower is up. Take shower and sit some more. You can talk if you want but you can't go across the room to talk. Lights out at 9:30, sometimes extended to ten. I would lay and read in front of them with a flashlight or sit in the bathroom and read to show them.

Yes, they are a Them.

Then you wake up and start all over again. If your in residental (VERY hard to do) you have to get a job. If you can't find one you have to get on county assistance which must be paid back if your homeless. Then they found various ways of kicking people out of that program and moving them back to the floor. You also have to put in a full day of chores at the shelter. People quit the program when they wanted the chores over work time.

I don't imagine this would be too different in one of these government run camps except it would be worse. You think a fifties/sixties person who has health problems is really going to benefit from this, or a child, or the immense psychological effect it has?

I still harbor immense satisfaction over how the b..ch who decided to kick me awake one day they decided to get us up early got drug tested and fired. I have a home now and its small but feels huge. But the FEAR of it dissapearing never goes away. This is what is happening to people who did make bad decisions and those who didn't. If you get chucked into an institutional situation and do a survival blink of adjustment you will always always remember. What must be remembered is suddenly being homeless is a paragram shift in life and you never forget. You feel like your options are evaporating and taking all of them away is just the worse you could do.

Sorry if this is emotional but I wonder how many who argue this have ever been sleeping on the floor of a shelter somewhere between grateful to get in and silently hissing at the power trips going on around you.
Sorry to hear about the experiences you went through.

One thing I noticed though that really stood out.
Your options were limited.

Something many do not understand is that, when your own your last dime, your options are very limited. You can't just up and move across the country for example for a better job. Money means options, and more money means even more options means more power.

What happens when you have so much money your options are almost unlimited?

Money is no longer a driving need then, but power is, and power to control and shape not only your life but those around you becomes an obsession, like the psychopaths we have running the country and by extension the world at large.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:59 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 9,968,629 times
Reputation: 2799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz View Post
misty I for one know you mean well. You must have a heck of a good job to be volunterring this much. For every one you can fix 6 more will replace that one.

Handing over the keys to a drunk driver is bad right? Well this Govt is a drunk driver.
I don't have a job. I may well be one of the people who ends up in dire straits someday. Plus, if I had a job, I can guarantee I would not be posting on CD during the day. To do so would not be ethical, IMHO. When I was working, I did not even check email. I didn't have five minutes during the day to even do something like this.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:03 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,533,525 times
Reputation: 18301
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
Ok, so how should the problem be dealt with? If it keeps people safe and off the streets and not banging down your door, what's the problem?
This has been tried ;it was called governamnt projects. It leqads to people with little to do except cause prob3elms amoung themselves really. That is why governamnt is getting out of the housing ownership in most areas and truning to private owned like section 8. Its just too expensive to upkeeep and starts alot of problems.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:08 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,932,385 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
I don't have a job. I may well be one of the people who ends up in dire straits someday. Plus, if I had a job, I can guarantee I would not be posting on CD during the day. To do so would not be ethical, IMHO. When I was working, I did not even check email. I didn't have five minutes during the day to even do something like this.
Sorry to hear that Misty.

I hope you find something soon.

Talking from my metaphysical side, these lessons we learn and share may seem temporal in this lifetime, but they are building blocks for something greater.

I would add someday at the end, but time is the constrictor in this particular instance and the physical world is beholden to those laws, not the eternal substance we are made of.

No, I'm not speaking of any religious construct either.
To each his/her own, we learn as we progress.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,172,856 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
I'm envisioning it as an empty building, nothing more, nothing less. No "processing." Maybe an intake. Maybe cublicles for some privacy. Maybe even better.
If they are built to detain people, then some sort of security and probably a fence is there. And a gate. And since you don't intend them to be leaving the next day some locks. Meaning the Fema idea which is out of town.

You have to have a plan on where to put people. Something like a red cross disastor shelter with lots of cots (lucky people) or like the National Guard armories are opened for extra shelters during the cold part of the year. They have cots.

But if its organized and planned to hold people or house them there would be some sort of setup for that. Sleeping on the floor is not a solution. Been there...

And if its out away from everywhere, the question is how do they get there? Can they come and go? If you are supposed to look for work, how do you do it? Does the bus take the uh, what do you call them? to the town every day and they have to be back in time to return? How soon does it become despite *all best intentions* a defacto prison?

You would have to have some sort of intake processing. Shelters usually demand an ID. They want a form filled out. They keep a file. If they are not just for one day they require a lot more. They have rules about who they want. Some of it is to keep the bad people out and some of it is to keep it simple. Where I stayed (emergency overnight only) if you took any kind of psych meds and told them you couldn't stay. Nobody did.

The threat is that when you do a BIG institution you get all the resident problems. You can't screen people and can't keep theft and worse out. You can't keep those who work there from seeing bodies and not people after awhile. Whatever the initial idea, the end one is different when real people interact.

I ended up in a residental program as I was applying for disability. Six women in a house is a nightmare but it was better than the car. When I got my first check I paid them back for it. But this was limited and you had to have an active disability case and be involved with the county. I will forever dispise one of them and miss another but it was a solution with dignity. What about all those empty houses out there which are going to rot before they are sold? Especially for those with health problems, families with small kids, and the like, couldn't we find a way to house them with their dignity mostly intact rather than make it a prison?

And something large scale like a homeless camp organized for efficency would find its way into being a way to find people willing to work for less and give them money to supliment what was there, but not enough to leave. Permenant underclass is a small way of describing it.
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