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YOU need to deal with the fact that not everybody is a racist. Stop accusing and give people the benefit of the doubt. Like I said before, if you look for something hard enough, you will find it. How about you stop looking?
Or were responding to thin air? And I apologize ahead of time If I misread it..
Let's be honest, people like Bill Cosby catch hell from the "Black community" for publicly speaking out about any personal accountability for Black Americans. Phrases like Uncle Tom, etc are thrown out as well, and the phrase "he shouldn't be airing our dirty laundry in public" is usually brought up as well.
Honestly, there is no real safe haven for a Black American public figure to criticise Blacks as a group without receiving HEAVY criticism. Personally, I believe the personal accountability issues are class issues more than race issues, anyway, and need to be handled as such. But since most people group these issues as a "Black" issue, and will accept positive Black stereotypes as a group, they should be thick skinned enough to accept criticism as a group, especially for a Black public figure.
I agree in part with what you are saying here. Cosby did take a lot of heat for what he said, and some of that heat came from some pretty established black scholars and activists. Didn't mean he was wrong, but some people felt that he was airing dirty laundry. My problem was not so much with the point he was trying to make, but the way he went about it. At worst, I think he was guilty of bad judgement in terms of how he went about it. I think the name calling was unjustified.
I think the answer is pretty obvious: people get upset about the race card being used because they believe that people use it when race isn't even a factor.
I think the answer is pretty obvious: people get upset about the race card being used because they believe that people use it when race isn't even a factor.
You are half right. The other half of the answer is that there are people who try to deny that there is a racial element to an event, statement, or action when in fact there is that element. They get upset when that is pointed out and don't want to accept it as fact.
Aside from that, it's not so much an obsession, but a discussion / debate about something that some people don't want to acknowledge is still a major issue in this society on the one hand, and on the other hand, some who want to blame for everything bad that happens to them, or anything someone says that is in disagreement with their own position.
Actually, many of us do. Bill Cosby speaks on it; Roland S Martin speaks on it; Dr. Michael Eric Dyson speaks on it; Shelby Steele speaks on it. Black people I know and associate with speak on it;. We readily acknowledge the problems in the Black Community and acknowledge those behaviors that contribute to the problem.
My question to you is, why is it that you go into attack mode any time a black person points up a discriminatory act perpetrated by a white individual or organization. Instead of examining the situation, your immediately yell "Race Card", as though the situation was not a bona fide race-based offense. A lot of bad that is done to black people is not necessarily racially motivated. A lot of it is. You seem to have a problem accepting that there actually are racially motivated acts of wrong doing perpetrated by whites. Yes, I know that black people are also guilty of perpetrating racially based wrongs against whites, but that's not the issue here. And please don't try to dodge the question placed at your feet by trying to hide behind the wrondoings that black people do. I already know about that and that's not what I'm asking you about.
Further, I invite you to go back to Post #155 in this thread, examine the posted links, and then come back and explain why it is that you maintain that the legacy of slavery in these United States has no impact on society today. You seem to have not been able to respond to that post, but I noticed that you did attempt to discredit a link on the same subject posted subsequent to my post. Let's not cherry pick.
Hi Slo Roller, I'm not sure why you think Andrea goes into attack mode at any mention of legitimate racial discrimination against blacks -- unless you are referring to some other threads in which you've interacted with her. But the OP of this thread specifically talked about playing the race card, which is a metaphor that refers to false accusations of racism (though, it's unclear whether the OP understands that). So, it's FALSE accusations of racism that puts me into attack mode, not discussions about actual racist incidents. It makes sense that most of the posters here are responding to the notion of playing the race card, that is, faking racial discrimination.
I will say that while I still sympathize with anyone who is the victim of an actual racist incident, I'm becoming more wary and distrustful simply because there are so many false accusations. I'm also angry that black on white racism is virtually ignored in this country, and anyone who wants to discuss it is promptly labeled a racist. As a white person who has been on the receiving end of black racism, it's a pretty awful experience. Just as white people with a conscience jump in and defend a black victim of racism, I'd like to see more black people jump in to defend white victims of racism. They do exist! I mean, at least acknowledge it. Yet on CD in particular, any threads that are about black on white racism bring out the usual hostile posters accusing the victim of racism.
I have read Shelby Steele's books and respect him a great deal. However, he is an object of ridicule by many blacks (Spike Lee in particular loathes him). I am not sure what your specific complaint is about Bill Cosby's approach. I didn't hear his speech, just read some excerpts. So it seems like blacks who speak frankly about problems in the black community are not very well respected or liked by other blacks.
It's a knee jerk reaction for a lot of people to immediately dismiss anything regarding racism because they've just been conditioned to view it as a hot button they don't want to deal with.
You don't have a clue of the extent of racism in this country. What's really annoying is that every effort to educate people like you of the reality of the breadth and depth of racism is met with denial based on some nebulous idea in your own mind that "it just ain't that bad".
I'm going to go out on a limb and presume, based on your posts, that you're white. As a white person, really, how the hell would youhave any idea what black people deal with on a day to day basis?? You are limited to what black-white interaction you observe. You can only look at these interactions from a white paradigm. You may work with a few black people, or you may not. Based on your posts, it is easily inferred that your interaction with blacks is somewhat superficial (work acquaintances, neighbors in passing), and / or limited (live or work around a few black people, perhaps a closer acquaintence with one or two). As a white person, it is highly unlikely that you would even be aware of a lot of the things that black people have to deal with in white society on a daily basis, performing routine activities like going to the store, buying gasoline, interfacing with businesses and representatives of institutions. Your paradigm blinds you to that. Unless you have actually been educated (trained) to recognize that life in this country is based on a white paradigm and what the really means, you are unable to analyze a situation from any other perspective. As a black person living in a white America for the last 53 years, I, and others like me, have learned to see things from a white paradigm because that's the world we live in, and from a black paradigm because that's the skin we live in. You don't have the task of having to look at things from a dual perspective and then trying to analyze whether that last slight was accidental, incidental, or racially motivated.
The skin we're in plays a significant role in how we are treated. Why?....because that is the first thing that people see when they see us. Don't give me that crap about "I don't see color". One has to deny the existence of my color to treat me like any one else?? Seeing my color is an obstacle to that?? There are those who would call this victimology. It's only victimology if you allow it to get in the way of what you are doing or trying to accomplish. Otherwise, it's regarded as something that most white people who do this don't want to acknowledge about themselves. There are studies that prove this out. It is an insult to one's common sense to say that one can see a black person and not at least inwardly acknowledge that they are black. Consciously or unconsciously there are assumptions made solely on that fact.
We are judged before we exhibit any type of behavior. Nimchimpski provided several examples of exactly that happening. Being married to a black woman has given him a window into seeing the world from a black perspective. He is a part of her day to day existence, and therefore has had a significant exposure to ...participation in...a black paradigm of life in this country.
These links will connect you to some short reads. One is only a couple of paragraphs, the others are no more than a page or three.
Read them at your leisure, but read them. I'm curious as to the true basis for your denial of the reality of the situation. Do you have any links that substantiate your position?
Okay, yes, I am white, you got me there. The restaurant my husband and I own is dominated by black employees that WE hired. The store we were training at had literally two white people at it, both were managers (the other manager was black, and the one white girl manager spoke like a black person and I believe her boyfriend is black). I am around black folks on a daily basis. I have heard lots of moaning and groaning on CD but much less in real life about how blacks are so discriminated against. The only thing I have heard is that blacks are pulled over more often in a certain white neighborhood. I think it's more likely that the cops are bored and want to steer clear of crime, and if a black guy in a crappy car goes driving by, they pull them over just like they would pull over a white guy in a crappy car. It really doesn't necessarily say anything about race. They have ordinances here to keep young kids out of the malls after a certain time so they don't cause trouble, I imagine it's a similar situation...it has to do with crime, not with race.
Anyway, I hear a lot of speculation, saying such and such was denied a job due to race, etc. but I have yet to see one person say it happened to HIM.
I don't believe everything in America is based on whites. I don't believe there is such a thing as white privilege, either. I think it's the same as playing the race card...I have no unnameable advantage due to my race, and to think so would be racist, IMO. If this was so, why do blacks ever hold superior positions to whites? I have had black bosses, why are they MY boss when I'm white and they are never hired into positions of superiority? The argument that blacks have no privilege just doesn't make sense.
Yes, I inwardly acknowledge race, but I don't consciously say "Okay, this guy is black so that means x, y and z so I'm going to treat him like crap." No, it doesn't work that way. I don't even subconsciously treat black people like crap, much less think to myself that I will purposely do so. I have black employees and I'm sure I would've heard about it by now if they thought I was racist. My point is, I may be able to see that a person is black but whether or not that has any bearing on my thoughts or actions is another story.
Having a degree in psychology, I completely agree that we are judged before we do anything. But that does not have to just do with race, it has to do with how one is dressed, if one is clean, if one's hair is fixed versus dirty and tangled, if the person looks tired or wired, etc. By saying we are immediately judged by our race to our detriment is not really true as there are many, MANY factors involved. Add in behavior when one starts moving and talking and you get a whole mess of things to interpret.
Honestly, I do not have the attention span to read through a bunch of articles. Like I said, if you pick one that you think best represents your view, I will read through it.
Oh, and there is no denial of reality on my part. I acknowledge racism exists, but do not agree that it is widespread. I do believe that blacks in general are too quick to find racism where there is none and thus play the race card.
Hi Slo Roller, I'm not sure why you think Andrea goes into attack mode at any mention of legitimate racial discrimination against blacks -- unless you are referring to some other threads in which you've interacted with her. But the OP of this thread specifically talked about playing the race card, which is a metaphor that refers to false accusations of racism (though, it's unclear whether the OP understands that). So, it's FALSE accusations of racism that puts me into attack mode, not discussions about actual racist incidents. It makes sense that most of the posters here are responding to the notion of playing the race card, that is, faking racial discrimination.
I will say that while I still sympathize with anyone who is the victim of an actual racist incident, I'm becoming more wary and distrustful simply because there are so many false accusations. I'm also angry that black on white racism is virtually ignored in this country, and anyone who wants to discuss it is promptly labeled a racist. As a white person who has been on the receiving end of black racism, it's a pretty awful experience. Just as white people with a conscience jump in and defend a black victim of racism, I'd like to see more black people jump in to defend white victims of racism. They do exist! I mean, at least acknowledge it. Yet on CD in particular, any threads that are about black on white racism bring out the usual hostile posters accusing the victim of racism.
I have read Shelby Steele's books and respect him a great deal. However, he is an object of ridicule by many blacks (Spike Lee in particular loathes him). I am not sure what your specific complaint is about Bill Cosby's approach. I didn't hear his speech, just read some excerpts. So it seems like blacks who speak frankly about problems in the black community are not very well respected or liked by other blacks.
I can't rep you again but I wanted to say this is a great post and you explained the whole situation quite well.
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