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Affirmative actions works both ways. Any group previously targeted for discrimination at the institution is allotted extra help or a boost if agreed upon by management. Affirmative action is not mandated by any governmental law or rule. I believe affirmative action has helped white women more than any other group. But it's important to remember that affirmative action is for any protected class group that had a prior experience of discrimination at the institution or organization.
Now, in your case discrimination against a white male can also be addressed under the law. Discrimination and unfair treatment against white men or any colored man is wrong. If you feel discriminated against at your workplace because of your male gender and your white color of skin you can report a complaint of that to EEOC. It should be discussed in a fair discussion. But do you think that will happen at work with your managers or co-workers? Managers are generally incompetent, venal, and poorly trained. They incompetently execute affirmative action by inappropriately hiring minorities who are friends/family, gatekeepers (tokens), or scapegoats (usually somebody they know is unfit for the job); and that type of hiring is extremely unprofessional and dangerous. Blame management 100% for that.
Sometimes criminal behavior like workplace shootings are caused by racism. Sometimes continuous amounts of unfair treatment anger the targeted person and he or she exploded with rage: since by then life has been so degraded for the targeted person, death means nothing by then. You can only degrade and humiliate someone so much until they do something as revenge. It's reality.
There should always be checks and balances at a place of business. Too often it's more of a dictatorship or mob rule.
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Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12
Because 99% of the time it's complete and utter BS. It's usually offered up as an excuse for failure, criminal behavior, etc. It's kind of hard to buy the race card when blatantly racist, anti-white male programs like Affirmative Action exist. Or when a promotion comes up at work I see "women and minorities encourage to apply," as a white man all I can ask is, am I not encouraged to apply? How about a sign that says "the best candidates encouraged to apply?" Or the hypocritical "Hate Crime" legislation which is full of double speak and contradictions. Essentially only whites are capable of being persecuted under "hate crimes." If your a sports fan, specifically the NFL I am sure you are aware of the "Rooney Rule" which states that a minority candidate must be interviewed for every available coaching position in the league. That usually leads to a token under qualified minority candidate being interviewed who has no shot at getting the job. If I was a minority coach in the NFL I'd be insulted by this rule.
Then we have illegal immigrants who come to this country, suck up welfare benefits, refuse to learn English, refuse to assimilate into American culture, often bring their 3rd world gang wars into our nation, then cry racism when the millions of hardworking Americans in this nation attempt to fix the problem. America probably does more to bend over backwards for to appease these illegal criminals than any other nation in the world would.
So it gets real tiring having to hear the same old song and dance every couple of days.
I'm here to tell you that it has happened to me twice in my 25 years in IT. Long story short, I passed two oral interviews over the phone, was flown down to Mississippi to the Coporate Headquarters at their expense to meet with the IT Director and the CIO. When I showed up at headquarters, suddenly the job was no longer available and that there had been some kind of "misunderstanding". There was no misunderstanding. I understood perfectly well what was going on. There was no problem until they got a look at me. Guess I sounded white over the phone.
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How can you be so sure about not hearing it from your employees? I don't know them and I don't know what the dynamic is between you and your employees, but I can guarantee you that given that this is an employer / employee relationship, they don't as free as you might believe, to tell you whether they think you're racist. They may not feel that you are racist, but they may feel that you don't treat them as equals with the rest of your staff. The latter is conjecture on my part, as I am not a part of that situation. I will venture to say, however, that if they are over the age of 30, they have come to understand, at least to some degree, both a black and a white paradigm when looking at workplace interaction.
I haven't been on CD all day and I'm exhausted but I wanted to respond really quick to these two points.
My brother who lives in central FL is an engineering major. A major company (a household name with many, many brands) was at a job fair and my brother talked to them, and after some correspondence after the job fair, they said they wanted to bring my brother up to one of their plants in GA for a factory tour, interview, etc. They were to pay for a rental car (turns out there was some screwup with that and he ended up driving himself) and hotel and all his meals, he even had like a personal assistant/concierge assigned to him. Well, soon after he got there, they went on the tour and then told him he actually is not qualified. They never told him specifically what the problem was, but obviously they weren't going to pay for all this stuff if they didn't already think he was qualified based on the correspondence they had previously had. My brother is white, and his experience sounds very much like the one you had. If you were truly discriminated against for your race, I am sorry that you went through that, as it is not right. I just try to think of alternatives instead of just assuming it's about race, know what I mean?
For the second point, I don't believe any employee would outright tell me I'm racist. But things get around, and there is a supervisor at another store and all the employees there used to go on and on about how they think he's racist. I'm sure at some point, it will get back to him, I would be surprised if it hadn't already since the employees were quite outspoken about it. Either way, I treat each employee fairly, race aside. Things (hours, pay, etc.) are based on their performance and attitude, not on their color. The majority of our employees are young kids, high school and college age with a few middle aged and older folks thrown in the mix.
And to respond to nim's comment about subconscious behavior...yes, I agree, if it was subconscious I would not have a clue I was doing it. But, I'm pretty good at reading people and I can tell when someone is feeling awkward or if their demeanor changes after I say something to them. If someone didn't feel I was treating them fairly or that I was racist, I think their behavior would change and I would at least wonder what's going on with them and evaluate my own actions and words to see if I said something that could be construed as offensive.
Maybe we should start an organization that gives college scholarships only to white people.
That would have been EVERY scholarship prior to a certain decade (60s?)... why do you think they HAD to create minority scholarship programs?
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Then we can start having events based completely around being white and proud of it.
They already do - it's called the Aryan Nation, KKK, and Neo-Nazi party. Obviously that doesn't mean you're a skinhead if you're proud to be white, but that's what "White Pride" has come to mean in this country. Bottom line, there simply isn't a cohesive "white culture," hence the reason we have no need to assemble and assert our pride. I'm white, but as a Slavic Jew I have little in common with an Irish Catholic. That doesn't mean all Black/Hispanic/Asian/etc. people have the same background, but they do have a more defined culture and American experience. Not to mention, they had to face open & institutional discrimination up until 50-60 years ago, which is why minority groups and scholarships were invented... I get all of that, so why do some white people not get it? That's when I wonder about your/their motivations, since I have NO need to declare my pride in being white.
you're talking about "aave"/"black english"/"ebonics"/whatever when you say "poor grammar", right? because most linguists will tell you that there's nothing grammatically wrong with aave. aave is a formally recognized dialect of american english and it operates different grammar rules than standard american english does. granted, a lot of rules remain the same (like capitalization rules), but there are subtle differences. sort of like how modern english operates under a different set of grammar rules than say, old english (beowulf) or early modern english (the bible, shakespeare, etc.) does. just because it's the dialect of english you speak, doesn't mean that standard american english is any more proper or correct than aave is.
and anyway, spelling =/= grammar. misspelling "constitution" or "official" isn't even close to the same thing as talking in aave.
if you're just talking about people that speak in standard american english and have bad grammar, then i really don't see how your point applies to black people. wouldn't it just apply to anyone who calls out somebody else for bad spelling/grammar when theirs isn't perfect either? can you show me a post where a black person was speaking in standard american english and had terrible grammar/spelling, was called out by a white person, and the white person was in turn labelled a racist for it? can you show me a post where that same black person critiqued someone else's grammar and/or spelling?
also, you say that black people "enjoy double standards while calling out ones that don't benefit them." you could say the same for yourself. you point out double standards that don't advantage you, while still enjoying the same double standards that black people call out for being disadvantageous to them.
i don't disagree that black people point out double standards they don't like and don't mention the ones they do like, but at the same time white people do that too. its something that people of all races do.
then again, my grammar, for all intents and purposes, is pretty poor. i haven't capitalized a word yet. how come you never called me on it? i was complaining about double standards too, and as i've already pointed out, white people have the same "point out bad double standards, ignore good double standards" tendencies that black people have. i guess you could say its because that double standard about grammar doesn't apply to white people, but at the same time, here's this:
a thread where a black poster has poor grammar, gets called on it by white posters, and no one is called a racist. so i guess your "double standard" doesn't always show up where you say it does, either. yea this is just one example, but i'm sure i could find more if i was actively looking for exchanges like that. i just happened to come across that one by chance.
what i'm trying to say is, if you're going to pick on people's grammar, then pick on everyone who has bad grammar. not just black folks when you want to make a point.
The premise of your point being that we live in a colour blind society?
Well that's what we're told. Well if you're white you're supposed to be color blind. If you're black you can have the NAACP, the United Negro College Fund, the Black Panthers, Congressional Black Caucus, the National Black Justice Coalition, BET, etc.
If you're Hispanic you can have La Raza, Brown Pride, League of United Latin American Citizens, Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, etc.
And on and on it goes for every minority group. Yet any white civil rights groups are labeled "hate groups," "white supremacists," "racist," and are vilified by the ADL, SPLC, etc. The message seems clear, if you're a minority it's okay to organize councils and organizations to advance your rights as a group. If you're white, well you're on your own pal. Any group that advocates white rights is a "hate filled terrorist neo-nazi white supremacist redneck hillbilly ignorant backwards racist evil vile group."
That would have been EVERY scholarship prior to a certain decade (60s?)... why do you think they HAD to create minority scholarship programs?
They already do - it's called the Aryan Nation, KKK, and Neo-Nazi party. Obviously that doesn't mean you're a skinhead if you're proud to be white, but that's what "White Pride" has come to mean in this country. Bottom line, there simply isn't a cohesive "white culture," hence the reason we have no need to assemble and assert our pride. I'm white, but as a Slavic Jew I have little in common with an Irish Catholic. That doesn't mean all Black/Hispanic/Asian/etc. people have the same background, but they do have a more defined culture and American experience. Not to mention, they had to face open & institutional discrimination up until 50-60 years ago, which is why minority groups and scholarships were invented... I get all of that, so why do some white people not get it? That's when I wonder about your/their motivations, since I have NO need to declare my pride in being white.
Maybe you have "NO" need to declare your pride but perhaps I'd like to? Perhaps I, unlike you/they, am damn proud of my heritage and ancestry and am sick and tired of not being able to express my pride and join and organization that also expressed pride without being labeled an "evil neo-nazi." Or have people like you make subtle jabs hinting that I'm really just a racist prick.
Perhaps all of these minority groups were "needed" 50-50 years ago but they're not anymore are they? Or is evil whitey still oppressing the masses these days? Perhaps after 12 years of brainwashing in public school I don't feel sufficiently guilty about the alleged actions of my forefathers so we still need these "activists" running around decrying us evil crackers?
Well that's what we're told. Well if you're white you're supposed to be color blind. If you're black you can have the NAACP, the United Negro College Fund, the Black Panthers, Congressional Black Caucus, the National Black Justice Coalition, BET, etc.
If you're Hispanic you can have La Raza, Brown Pride, League of United Latin American Citizens, Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, etc.
And on and on it goes for every minority group. Yet any white civil rights groups are labeled "hate groups," "white supremacists," "racist," and are vilified by the ADL, SPLC, etc. The message seems clear, if you're a minority it's okay to organize councils and organizations to advance your rights as a group. If you're white, well you're on your own pal. Any group that advocates white rights is a "hate filled terrorist neo-nazi white supremacist redneck hillbilly ignorant backwards racist evil vile group."
Why would there be a need for white civil rights groups? Have whites ever been subject to race-based terrorism, or kept from voting? Whites are not a minority. They are the privileged majority. Still.
White supremacy takes the forms of workplace mobbing and corrupt hiring practices. It's more of a system to keep the white man at an advantage. It helps their self esteem when they can hire a minority they know is not experienced enough or right for the workplace culture and then they kick that minority around for "being lazy" or "not learning fast enough" or "not being a team player." If the racial or ethnic minority is at a disadvantage then everybody else is advantaged. See how it works? lol
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Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12
Maybe you have "NO" need to declare your pride but perhaps I'd like to? Perhaps I, unlike you/they, am damn proud of my heritage and ancestry and am sick and tired of not being able to express my pride and join and organization that also expressed pride without being labeled an "evil neo-nazi." Or have people like you make subtle jabs hinting that I'm really just a racist prick.
Perhaps all of these minority groups were "needed" 50-50 years ago but they're not anymore are they? Or is evil whitey still oppressing the masses these days? Perhaps after 12 years of brainwashing in public school I don't feel sufficiently guilty about the alleged actions of my forefathers so we still need these "activists" running around decrying us evil crackers?
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I will try to catch up tomorrow.
Obviously that doesn't mean you're a skinhead if you're proud to be white, but that's what "White Pride" has come to mean in this country. Bottom line, there simply isn't a cohesive "white culture," hence the reason we have no need to assemble and assert our pride. I'm white, but as a Slavic Jew I have little in common with an Irish Catholic. That doesn't mean all Black/Hispanic/Asian/etc. people have the same background, but they do have a more defined culture and American experience. Not to mention, they had to face open & institutional discrimination up until 50-60 years ago, which is why minority groups and scholarships were invented... I get all of that, so why do some white people not get it? That's when I wonder about your/their motivations, since I have NO need to declare my pride in being white.
