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Grasping at straws now...The temperature of a lit match is 1,100 degrees. Jet fuel burns at over 1,500 and can exceed that with enough oxygen.(wind)
Don't tell me about how hot steel must be to weaken...I spent a stint working as a blacksmith. At temperatures above 800° C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. You are also not mentioning the fact that the plane damaged some of the columns and no doubt jarred the protective insulation off of others.
That video is shocking. I had never seen this one before. Yes, the same smoke pattern is clearly repeated. I haven't got the whole "mirrors" part yet, but I will watch several times more until I see it- or not.
More and more emerges as the years go by- and none of it supports the "official story".
Why turn off the investigation/project created to prevent an attack four months before the attacks as soon as they got information that an attack was coming and who the perpetrators would be? Why? Who would prevent such a thing, and why, and who had the power to cover it up by destroying the information collected during that investigation?
I do believe the investigation was intentionally impeded and incomplete, with lots of conspicuously suspicious omissions from the 9/11 Commission Report. There are plenty of anomalies that put entities within the U.S. government in the line of complicity, and none of those have to do with demolitions of thermite or missiles or any of that nonsense the supposed Truth 'Movement' proposes these days.
Talking about all of that crap has removed credibility and belief from anyone, and they wonder why they can't get the time of day from DOJ officials with power to investigate and prosecute those even remotely complicit.
No one ever mentions the coincidental stocks trading in the weeks prior, or the foreknowledge enough for government officials to have received warnings about not flying east to west in September, or how main figures leading the 9/11 investigation had strong conflicts of interest (i.e. being affiliated with OBL's family members and business ventures, helped to fund Al Qaeda, etc.), or what happened to Dr. David Graham of Louisiana before he was to testify about a mysterious Middle Eastern man who he identified as being in the same company of at least two of the named 9/11 plane hijackers while they were taking flight classes there, or how intelligence units were scrambling behind Atta every step of the way while never arresting him; these hijackers were being protected from law enforcement intervention, and any investigation into their whereabouts before the attacks were being intentionally impeded within the federal government left and right.
And numerous other anomalies that sites such as 911myths or debunking911 try to slack off as being merely coincidental, or actually believe were 'mistakes' or simply dismiss while using government excuses as their primary source for dismissal.
I think there does need to be another investigation, but by whom and why? You can't even get the time of day because of all the nonsense about thermite and missiles and such polluting the atmosphere, that it's no wonder two-thirds of the people who took this thread's poll don't find anything significant or dubious enough to warrant any government accountability in the hideous and public murder of 3,000 people.
No one questions hard enough how a military stronghold was attacked simultaneously, four times, unfettered, in different locations, over the period of less than eighty minutes, nor how everyone with power to prevent or intervene immediately claimed to have simply not known about it because of how unprecedented it was and how "unprepared" everything was (without any regard to the numerous times that very scenario had been rehearsed in the years and months prior).
The truth movement does indeed question all the things you mention. There are so many, many, many reasons to question the events of 9/11, that they certainly don't get anything close to equal time- so thank you for mentioning some of them.
I did mention briefly in a couple of posts way above about the preposterous failure of military response and the simultaneous war game scenario- and the people like Rice who never dreamed that such a thing could happen.LOL
The stock put options have been mentioned as well. Again the many, many reasons to doubt the official story, and yet some cannot see even one reason.
Because you don't speak for all victims ... 70% of 911 victims want a new investigation, and you don't get to speak for them! Link please. No one I know wants it reopened.
Furthermore, all victims were not accounted for in NYC, Washington DC, and Shanksville, PA. Yes, I know. Two of my friends were disintegrated. Others, only a piece remained. There are other victims, over a MILLION in Iraq ... Ten's of THOUSANDS in Afghanistan, and our military services people dying every day ... being maimed every day ... and the impact that has on their families, fighting a phony war against contrived enemies. Yes, I know many of them. I hope they come home soon.
The reality is, every American is a victim of 911 in one regard or another, and to one degree or another ... do you think for one moment you are the only one who lost loved ones or friends in this? Of course not. I speak to other victims/survivors daily. It's part of my daily life.
Who exactly do you think you are to speak for all of them? I speak for myself, my family, and the victims families that I know. Personally, I'm not inclined to give you a blank check for claiming the victim routine over and over ... primarily because of the way you bounce around and show up on every 911 thread promoting propaganda. Oh, that's the pot calling the kettle black! It just doesn't seem to legitimize your claims. What claims? That my father was in the '93 bombing? That I've lost people in both attacks? I haven't said that before now, giving you the benefit of the doubt. But I don't know you, or whether your claims are true or not ... so forgive me if I don't take your word as 100% truth, given your propensity thus far to support overt falsehoods. Considering that I 'grew up' in the tower, my father walked the beams of the North tower as it was being completed to help him in his job (HVAC), and spent my life learning about the buildings, how they were built and the equipment within from my Dad, I know more than you could ever dream of.
It seems to me that if you actually are who you claim to be, you'd want to know ALL OF THE ANSWERS .... and if you think you have all of them now, well, you are sadly mistaken ... some of the blatant lies in the official story are too overt to claim you believe everything that has been told you, so I'm not buying what you are attempting to sell.
You asked the question ... that's your answer.
I've learned enough to be satisfied with the answers I have. I'm not happy with them. I think the gov't dropped the ball, but I don't believe there is a conspiracy.
Question: Why didn't 'they' - whoever 'they' are - destroy the towers in '93?
I do believe the investigation was intentionally impeded and incomplete, with lots of conspicuously suspicious omissions from the 9/11 Commission Report. There are plenty of anomalies that put entities within the U.S. government in the line of complicity, and none of those have to do with demolitions of thermite or missiles or any of that nonsense the supposed Truth 'Movement' proposes these days.
Talking about all of that crap has removed credibility and belief from anyone, and they wonder why they can't get the time of day from DOJ officials with power to investigate and prosecute those even remotely complicit.
I would say your first error in judgment here would be placing a New York City second's worth of trust in the DOJ ...you do realize that the President appoints the Attorney General who heads the DOJ ... right? The only chance at a legitimate investigation would be an independent grand jury investigation ... not the DOJ ... and certainly not Congress. We've already seen what that produces.
Secondly, "all of that crap" as you refer to it is not crap. This really is simply a matter of stages of knowledge to which one possesses regarding this event, and the deeper one digs the more bazaar the story gets. It's not the people that are bazaar ... it's the truth itself that is bazaar.
Based on your comments already, I can see that you are ready to entertain the idea of some criminal complicity involving certain officials, but still embracing the foundation of the official story. Something perhaps like terrorists plotted and carried out these attacks, and certain individuals in position to prevent this allowed it to happen?
It's far deeper than that. That's swimming in the baby pool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy
No one ever mentions the coincidental stocks trading in the weeks prior, or the foreknowledge enough for government officials to have received warnings about not flying east to west in September, or how main figures leading the 9/11 investigation had strong conflicts of interest (i.e. being affiliated with OBL's family members and business ventures, helped to fund Al Qaeda, etc.), or what happened to Dr. David Graham of Louisiana before he was to testify about a mysterious Middle Eastern man who he identified as being in the same company of at least two of the named 9/11 plane hijackers while they were taking flight classes there, or how intelligence units were scrambling behind Atta every step of the way while never arresting him; these hijackers were being protected from law enforcement intervention, and any investigation into their whereabouts before the attacks were being intentionally impeded within the federal government left and right.
There has been plenty of talk about these issues ... and they are valid points to highlight ... and if you CAREFULLY analyze them, they will lead you out of the shallow end, and into the deep end where the real story swims. These issues are finger prints ...and there are PLENTY of finger prints on this crime ... including tenants of the WTC 1, 2 & 7 who had to have assisted in the crime, all of which have either DIRECT or indirect links to the Bush crime family ... and I don't mean Georgie Boy ... we're talking Poppy Bush and his cabal of criminals that have been committing crimes against America since before even Poppy was born.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy
And numerous other anomalies that sites such as 911myths or debunking911 try to slack off as being merely coincidental, or actually believe were 'mistakes' or simply dismiss while using government excuses as their primary source for dismissal.
You're dancing all around it ... you can feel it ... you don't quite know what to make of it all, but you've got your finger pointing right at it. These "debunking" sites ... and groups ... popular mechanics .. NIST ... all connected, and all complicit. Ghoulianni complicit ... Bush/Cheney, complicit. Silverstein complicit. FEMA complicit. NORAD, the Pentagon .. the Secretary of Defense ... the mainstream media, ALL OF THEM!
If you don't understand this, you are going to do nothing but chase your own tail, and demand that the criminals complicit in this dastardly act investigate themselves. And that's not likely to be too productive.
Did you know that the 911 Building Performance Analysis Team (BPAT) was comprised of the same individuals that performed the same function for the OKC bombing? These guys are crime scene sanitizers and cover up artists ... not investigators. Show a sign of integrity, step out of line and they'll crucify you (or kill you).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy
I think there does need to be another investigation, but by whom and why? You can't even get the time of day because of all the nonsense about thermite and missiles and such polluting the atmosphere, that it's no wonder two-thirds of the people who took this thread's poll don't find anything significant or dubious enough to warrant any government accountability in the hideous and public murder of 3,000 people.
That's not the issue here .... I'd say that a large number of those "we don't need another investigation" group consists of two types ... paid to say so .. and too stupid to breathe. Who's who among the group ... well I have my suspicions.
The only thing that is polluting anything here are shills and idiots, because there is overwhelming evidence of not only controlled demolition ... but evidence that precludes any other scenario from being a possibility. There IS NO DOUBT that these buildings were demolished ... and not by fire and planes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy
No one questions hard enough how a military stronghold was attacked simultaneously, four times, unfettered, in different locations, over the period of less than eighty minutes, nor how everyone with power to prevent or intervene immediately claimed to have simply not known about it because of how unprecedented it was and how "unprepared" everything was (without any regard to the numerous times that very scenario had been rehearsed in the years and months prior).
All of these things have been questioned ... and valid questions they are. I'm not sure you are prepared for the honest answer to those questions, since you consider the controlled demolition scenario, crap.
The truth in this case is far stranger than fiction. That truth, boiled down, is that everything you think you know about 911 is more than likely false. The lies are endless ... the list of perpetrators and those complicit is very long, and the event as it has been presented by the media was a Hollywood production of rather poor quality. But with the Simpsons and Family Guy and American Idol being blockbuster entertainment shows ... it doesn't take much to convince the general public.
The images you've watched a thousand times of planes slamming into the Twin Towers .... total TV magic ... smoke and mirrors. Start your personal investigation and education there ... and you'll save yourself a lot of wasted motion.
I've learned enough to be satisfied with the answers I have. I'm not happy with them. I think the gov't dropped the ball, but I don't believe there is a conspiracy.
Question: Why didn't 'they' - whoever 'they' are - destroy the towers in '93?
(BTW, When you respond inside a quoted segment, it makes it particularly difficult to respond, but I'll endeavor to overcome the challenge.)
To answer your first question ... there is no mystery as to who "they" are, relative to 93 WTC bombing. The FBI's involvement is well documented, including the fact that they provided the material for the bomb, and their informant built it, and they let the bombing occur. The FBI informant recorded conversations he had with his FBI handler, which proves these facts, and probably saved his rear end (which I think was the point). What's not well known is that all of the participants, save for the FBI informant were trained CIA assets involved with Afghanistan.
This was all reported on mainstream news, including reports by Dan Rather ... I'm surprised you don't know about this, since you lost a loved one in it. The details of this were kept fairly quiet due to sealed records by Federal Judge Michael B. Mukasey, (good friend of Rudolf Giuliani) and later to become George W Bush's appointment as Attorney General in 2007. The trial itself occurred in 1995, and got little mention in the news, because the important big news was OJ Simpson's trial ... and not the FBI bombing the WTC ... funny how that works.
As to why didn't they bring the towers down then? Why would I know that? Why did George H W Bush not take out Saddam Hussein in 1990 instead of his son doing it in 2003? I suppose they have their reasons.
As for your other points:
Link please. No one I know wants it reopened.
They're running a freaking national TV ad calling for a new investigation!!! You simply cannot be that out of touch. Who's leg are you pulling here?
Here's one link ... but there are literally dozens ... and many polls ... the majority were not at all satisfied with the 911 commission report, as well they should feel that way... 911 Truth Statement - 911truth.org
Considering that I 'grew up' in the tower, my father walked the beams of the North tower as it was being completed to help him in his job (HVAC), and spent my life learning about the buildings, how they were built and the equipment within from my Dad, I know more than you could ever dream of.
I tell you this ... if you think for one moment that an aluminum plane will slice through structural steel and steel reinforced concrete floors (5 of them), completely penetrating, tail and all as if that building were made of balsa wood ... you don't know nearly as much as you think you know. And if you think that fire is going to bring that building down, including the core columns ... you know as much about 911 as you apparently know about 1993.
Perhaps the '93 attempt was actually done by inept Islamic militants.
Now this I do believe. But for a bunch of cave dwellers to overcome the world's most sophisticated and powerful military is really stretching it. I mean c'mon. And with boxcutters no less?
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And with boxcutters no less?
