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Old 01-16-2011, 06:18 PM
 
68 posts, read 191,954 times
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Comparisons between the contemporary gay rights movement and the American Civil Rights Movement seem to come up quite a lot in public discourse about gay rights. Is this comparison appropriate? Why or why not?

This subject came up on another thread and took on a life of its own, so I thought I should give it its own space - especially as we are currently celebrating MLK day.

What say you?
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:38 PM
 
24,497 posts, read 38,779,844 times
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The concepts of gay rights movement and the black civil rights movement is indeed very comparable. I'd go a step further and say that gay people need to take a a moment and study the civil rights movement if they plan on being successful.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,165 posts, read 22,897,295 times
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Except for the fact that gays were never enslaved, lynched, beaten by cops throughout the nation, denied access to education and the vote, forced to use seperate restaurant, transportation, and restroom faciities, and do not currently suffer from economic hardship and imprisonment at many times the rate of non-gays, and are in fact among the most wealthy and well-educated of our citizenry, the comparison with, and need for, a reprise of black civil rights activism is dead on.

However, given the current infantile feeblemindedness and ignorance which characterizes the majority of Americans, spoon-fed as they are by a manipulative and mendacious mainstream media, the odious and palpably false analogy of the OP continues to gain credence and will probably end with a Matthew Shepard Day holiday. On the Fifth of July, perhaps.

Free at last. Free at last. Thank Brokeback Mountain, I'm Free at last.

What an insult to African-Americans. In some ways, it is perhaps the ultimate trivialization of their tragic past and troubled present, as they struggle with REAL poverty and injustice.
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:46 AM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
11,479 posts, read 8,130,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Except for the fact that gays were never enslaved, lynched, beaten by cops throughout the nation, denied access to education and the vote, forced to use seperate restaurant, transportation, and restroom faciities, and do not currently suffer from economic hardship and imprisonment at many times the rate of non-gays, and are in fact among the most wealthy and well-educated of our citizenry, the comparison with, and need for, a reprise of black civil rights activism is dead on.

However, given the current infantile feeblemindedness and ignorance which characterizes the majority of Americans, spoon-fed as they are by a manipulative and mendacious mainstream media, the odious and palpably false analogy of the OP continues to gain credence and will probably end with a Matthew Shepard Day holiday. On the Fifth of July, perhaps.

Free at last. Free at last. Thank Brokeback Mountain, I'm Free at last.

What an insult to African-Americans. In some ways, it is perhaps the ultimate trivialization of their tragic past and troubled present, as they struggle with REAL poverty and injustice.


I've never been so frustrated at not being able to rep you again.

The only thing I would add is to call attention to the flawed logic in attempting the apples/oranges comparison between skin color and a lifestyle choice repugnant to most people.
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Where Dance Music comes first
1,904 posts, read 2,820,069 times
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They are not on the same level, not even close. Anyone who actually thinks they are comparable might just be oblivious.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:28 AM
 
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I do not think it is either appropriate or inappropriate as a general rule. A direct 100% 1:1 comparison is clearly not valid because there are vast differences between the topics. However some comparisons between the two are valid and some are not.

Some are in fact inevitable given that some of the arguments people level against homosexuality are identical to the those used against race…. Especially those arguments rooted in Religion.

Take a look at the M.Loving V Virginia case where the Trial Judge Leon M. Bazile upon being confronted with a white and black person who married, is oft quoted as having said:

Quote:
Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.
This to me is comparable to statements people make like:

Quote:
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve
Which to me is exactly the same argument made with different words… that the argument against the peoples is being based by such people in an interpretation of what they think god’s intentions are. How could one NOT make a comparison between the two therefore?

The issue is when you make comparisons people get offended unless the comparison is valid on EVERY level. If I say "My pencil.... like my car.... has lead in it" people will sometimes say "Do not be stupid, pencils are not like cars". The idea that a comparison has to be valid on every level really is one that many people operate on.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:40 AM
Status: "Well informed, thus unvaxxed!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Kansas
21,437 posts, read 18,061,254 times
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Homosexual rights are based on a social agenda of trying to force me to accept that homosexuality is moral (the acts are sinful according to my beliefs) and "normal" (which also is not within my belief system). Also, being black was never considered a mental health condition or in having any deviation other than skin color. Desperate people use whatever they can despite how much of a stretch it may be.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:18 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 5,889,063 times
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I recognise very little of the above post as being true or matching Reality. For example few are arguing that we call it "moral" but are arguing that there is no reason to consider it "immoral". Also black people have been considered to have ALL kinds of deviancies by people over history, including mental health ones and mental ability ones. Some people even went so far as to think they were not even human but some kind of sub species.

Saying that being black has never been considered anything but a deviation in skin color is simply wrong.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Here
2,289 posts, read 1,845,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sautille42 View Post
Comparisons between the contemporary gay rights movement and the American Civil Rights Movement seem to come up quite a lot in public discourse about gay rights. Is this comparison appropriate? Why or why not?

This subject came up on another thread and took on a life of its own, so I thought I should give it its own space - especially as we are currently celebrating MLK day.

What say you?
Gay folks don't bother me, just so long as I don't know they are gay. Like a lot of folks, just looking at some obviously gay person and thinking of his lifestyle makes me sort of sick. And don't let me even get started on what God says about it. To compare gays' position in society today with that of blacks during the Civil Rights Revolution is insulting those blacks of the previous two generations who fought discrimination because of something they could not help; their skin color.

Yes, gays cannot get married, but that's only as it should be. Marriage is for heterosexual people. And to avoid both discrimination, shame and humiliation, gays often have to hide their lifestyle. But they chose to be gay, so they chose to face the degradation rather than avoid it. Blacks had no such option. So on top of the insult of being compared with something gay, there's no comparison between the Civil Rights Movement and gay movement.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:06 AM
 
419 posts, read 826,980 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by sautille42 View Post
Comparisons between the contemporary gay rights movement and the American Civil Rights Movement seem to come up quite a lot in public discourse about gay rights. Is this comparison appropriate? Why or why not?

This subject came up on another thread and took on a life of its own, so I thought I should give it its own space - especially as we are currently celebrating MLK day.

What say you?
The gay rights movement is a walk in the park compared to what blacks have historically suffered through. But they are both injustices, so I think they can be compared on that basic level. No groups of people, whether they be black, white, red, gay, straight, man or woman, should be denied what others are granted. Good, well-deserving humans come in all different forms.

I have to wonder about the folks who are so adamant about not comparing the gay rights movement to the black civil rights movement. Are they really so pro-black rights, or are they homophobes who seek to bash gay rights any chance they get?
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