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I have said and maintained since the onset of this thread that he was influenced by things he read on two progressive websites.
I never said that either of those two websites specifically told people to go out and shoot people.
Do you grasp the distinction?
I still maintain that this influence exists because he linked directly to them within his final "Last Testament". If they had no influence upon him, then please explain why he'd link to them?
It's not as if he just listed those links on a list of his favourite websites that he frequents. No, he linked directly to them WITHIN his suicide note.
So again....please explain to me why on Earth a guy would link to any website in a "suicide note" if those links meant nothing to him or had no influence whatsoever on him?
See post #26 again.
Those sites may have influenced his policits.
You have not proven that those sites influenced his actions.
LOL.....yeah, when YOU are asked to provide a source or proof, it's OK to just say "I'm my source". I guess you don't realize that what you claim and what you can prove doesn't rest solely upon a claim that you know something from experience. For all I know you could be a dog catcher.
Then in a thread about the left blaming Palin for the AZ Shootings, you came right out and said "She has blood on her hands now". Funny, you didn't DIRECTLY make a link to her advocating anyone go out and shoot anyone isn't it? You didn't require a direct connection then. Yet, you said it as an absolute.
However, in this case, you require a DIRECT link, even though I never claimed there was one. All I said was that the guy was influenced by two progressive websites. A claim I still feel is quite easy to defend considering the guy linked to them in his final words to the world basically saying why he was going to take a future action.
The sentence They may have "pushed him over the edge" as so many Liberal talking heads love to put it when they blamed innocent conservative pundits for the AZ shootings was referring to people like you who came right out and stated that Palin had blood on her hands. It was sarcasm that any thinking adult can easily discern.
That's something neither you or I can prove. If he was linking to things about on their websites about class warfare, then maybe he took "warfare" too far????
From all indications, he didn't shoot at anyone for political reasons anyhow.
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You have not proven that those sites influenced his actions.
I said the guy was obviously influenced by them since he linked to them within a "suicide note".
I don't think that is going too far out on a limb to say.
KoobleKar, you may find that many of us are more than willing to accept that there's a possibility that someone wrote something somewhere that incited this man to go on a shooting rampage. We're simply not willing to make that jump just because his politics was influenced by a couple of left-leaning websites that he may or may not have linked to in his "suicide note".
You can't show us any articles or statements from those websites that may have been inciteful.
You can't direct us to any images that may have been a catalyst to his tirade.
The best you can do is claim that someone reported that a now-unavailable posting had links to a couple of left-leaning sites in this guy's alleged "last words".
If some of us on the Left had simply posted links to Foxnews.com or Sarahpac.com or WorldNetDaily.com and claimed that these generic websites, in and of themselves, may have had an impact on Loughner's targeting Congresswoman Giffords for assassination, you would be downright verklempt. And rightfully so.
But it wasn't links to the main pages of traditionally Right-leaning websites we pointed to. We specified things like actual gun sight cross hairs being placed on Gabriel Giffords' district and calling her out by name to be targeted, candidates suggesting that if conservatives didn't get their way at the ballot box that they might have to use "second amendment remedies", that a congresswoman told her constituents she wanted them "armed and dangerous."
These are very specific things that caused many of us concern.
Can you point to anything like that that Mr. Duke read on mediamatters.com? If so, I'm willing to read it and see if I agree that it's likely a contributing factor to him going nuts with a gun. Unless or until then, I have to stick with:
Unproven based on a sheer lack of evidence, and nothing more than hearsay that cannot be verified.
I don't know how many times I need to repeat that I never said that specific words influenced this man.
What I did say was that since the guy linked directly to them, they were OBVIOUSLY an influence on him. Agreed so far?
And since he linked to them WITHIN a "suicide note" of sorts, it's not too far of a stretch to think that whatever was at the other end of those links had SOMETHING to do with his future actions.
Seriously....if you are writing what amounts to a suicide note, and you put a link in that suicide note to something on a website, is it so unreasonable to conclude there was a relation between those links and your decision making process?
LOL.....yeah, when YOU are asked to provide a source or proof, it's OK to just say "I'm my source".
When I am a good source on the issue, of course it is.
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Originally Posted by KoobleKar
Then in a thread about the left blaming Palin for the AZ Shootings, you came right out and said "She has blood on her hands now".
And I stand by the statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoobleKar
Funny, you didn't DIRECTLY make a link to her advocating anyone go out and shoot anyone isn't it? You didn't require a direct connection then. Yet, you said it as an absolute.
I still don't require a direct connection now. I still assert that violent rhetoric of the sort that Palin trades in has consequences. And the Arizona shootings are one of them.
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Originally Posted by KoobleKar
However, in this case, you require a DIRECT link, even though I never claimed there was one.
I require no such thing.
I require you to show that there was violent rhetoric on Media Matters that is comparable to the violent rhetoric of Sarah Palin. Before you connect the dots, you must actually have dots.
When I am a good source on the issue, of course it is.
But it proves nothing because you can't even prove you know what you're talking about or have any expertise on the subject.
It's only your word'
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And I stand by the statement.
And I stand by mine.
Of which I at least can show that the guy READ those websites. In your case, there is no evidence whatsoever that the AZ Shooter ever read the Palin material.
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I still don't require a direct connection now. I still assert that violent rhetoric of the sort that Palin trades in has consequences. And the Arizona shootings are one of them.
Strange then that you DO require a DIRECT connection when the violence came from your side isn't it?
In my world, that's called a double-standard.
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I require you to show that there was violent rhetoric on Media Matters that is comparable to the violent rhetoric of Sarah Palin. Before you connect the dots, you must actually have dots.
Where are yours?
Unfortunately for you, you haven't even shown that the AZ Shooter paid any attention to any political pundits let alone Palin.
So you have NO connection at all.
I at least have the man's own suicide note which directly links to those two websites.
I don't know how many times I need to repeat that I never said that specific words influenced this man.
What I did say was that since the guy linked directly to them, they were OBVIOUSLY an influence on him. Agreed so far?
An influence on his politics, perhaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoobleKar
And since he linked to them WITHIN a "suicide note" of sorts, it's not too far of a stretch to think that whatever was at the other end of those links had SOMETHING to do with his future actions.
Of course it's a stretch. It's a wild guess is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoobleKar
Seriously....if you are writing what amounts to a suicide note, and you put a link in that suicide note to something on a website, is it so unreasonable to conclude there was a relation between those links and your decision making process?
Other than a blogger's allegation that there were links at all, we have no way of knowing if that's even true.
But let's suppose we take said blogger's word that there even was a Facebook page and that it contained the following language:
"My Testament: Some people (the government sponsored media) will say I was evil, a monster (V)… no… I was just born poor in a country where the Wealthy manipulate, use, abuse, and economically enslave 95% of the population. Rich Republicans, Rich Democrats… same-same… rich… they take turns fleecing us… our few dollars… pyramiding the wealth for themselves. The 95%… the us, in US of A, are the neo slaves of the Global South. Our Masters, the Wealthy, do, as they like to us…"
Can you explain to me how that supports the notion that Left-leaning websites such as Media Matters wrote something that caused this man to snap to such a breaking point? For all you know, Mr. Duke had links to some Right-leaning websites in his alleged "suicide note", as well, but the blogger conveniently ignored those and chose only to report on what his bias caused him to see.
You must admit that you really have no verifiable information upon which to draw any conclusion, let alone the one you have drawn.
LOL.....yeah, when YOU are asked to provide a source or proof, it's OK to just say "I'm my source". I guess you don't realize that what you claim and what you can prove doesn't rest solely upon a claim that you know something from experience. For all I know you could be a dog catcher.
Then in a thread about the left blaming Palin for the AZ Shootings, you came right out and said "She has blood on her hands now". Funny, you didn't DIRECTLY make a link to her advocating anyone go out and shoot anyone isn't it? You didn't require a direct connection then. Yet, you said it as an absolute.
However, in this case, you require a DIRECT link, even though I never claimed there was one. All I said was that the guy was influenced by two progressive websites. A claim I still feel is quite easy to defend considering the guy linked to them in his final words to the world basically saying why he was going to take a future action.
The sentence They may have "pushed him over the edge" as so many Liberal talking heads love to put it when they blamed innocent conservative pundits for the AZ shootings was referring to people like you who came right out and stated that Palin had blood on her hands. It was sarcasm that any thinking adult can easily discern.
We specified things like actual gun sight cross hairs being placed on Gabriel Giffords' district and calling her out by name to be targeted, candidates suggesting that if conservatives didn't get their way at the ballot box that they might have to use "second amendment remedies", that a congresswoman told her constituents she wanted them "armed and dangerous."
These are very specific things that caused many of us concern.
You TRIED hard to connect those things, but you failed. Even Obama said so.
Since you cannot prove the AZ Shooter ever read those things or listened to any of the rhetoric you mentioned, you have no connection.
We KNOW this guy read at least those two liberal websites and he included links to them in his suicide note....obviously they meant something to him and whatever it was must have meant enough for him to include them in his final screed which explained why he was doing what he was about to do.
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