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Many of his seemingly random statements—on "grammar," "the ratifications," "the new currency," and more—echo the teachings of the "sovereign citizen" movement, a right-wing school of thought alleging that Americans have been surreptitiously stripped of their God-given rights.
These are not random parallels, as I discovered in reviewing Loughner's YouTube videos. In multiple instances, he uses the precise talking points sovereign-citizen theorists teach via a thriving cottage industry of books, websites, bogus legal companies, and seminars; one popular theorist, David Wynn Miller, told the New York Times that Loughner has "probably been on my website."
I have read about those things...David Wynn Miller is obsessed with grammar and language.....how the hell does that make him right wing?
Sovereign Citizens:
"Self-described "sovereign citizens" believe that they are answerable only to English common law and are not subject to any statutes or proceedings at the federal, state or municipal levels."
its 2011....in our internet connected world there is on reason to take anything as truth without first researching it. So why?...why do so many read something and take it as true without basic fact-checking first?
As for this thread....the OP wants Rush and others to stop calling the shooter a liberal which seems to imply that they have repeatedly made these claims and others have responding to asking the OP to provide proof at which the only thing they could come up with is "perhaps left-leaning"..doesn't quite say diehard tree-hugging liberal....and doesn't seem suggest that Palin and Rush made those claims constantly.
OTH, The left pointed fingers at the right before we even knew the shooters name, in-fact they still are, and yet no one is telling the left to stop the blame or accusations.....
Sovereign Citizens:
"Self-described "sovereign citizens" believe that they are answerable only to English common law and are not subject to any statutes or proceedings at the federal, state or municipal levels."
its 2011....in our internet connected world there is on reason to take anything as truth without first researching it. So why?...why do so many read something and take it as true without basic fact-checking first?
As for this thread....the OP wants Rush and others to stop calling the shooter a liberal which seems to imply that they have repeatedly made these claims and others have responding to asking the OP to provide proof at which the only thing they could come up with is "perhaps left-leaning"..doesn't quite say diehard tree-hugging liberal....and doesn't seem suggest that Palin and Rush made those claims constantly.
OTH, The left pointed fingers at the right before we even knew the shooters name, in-fact they still are, and yet no one is telling the left to stop the blame or accusations.....
"The left" is not some unified group with a spokesperson, any more than "the right" is. And of course there are plenty of people telling both sides to STOP with the blame and accusations. There just don't seem to be many people listening.
As for grammar and language obsessions having anything to do with politics, it doesn't. That would have nothing to do with the characterization of Mr Miller as someone who probably leans to the right.
"The left" is not some unified group with a spokesperson, any more than "the right" is. And of course there are plenty of people telling both sides to STOP with the blame and accusations. There just don't seem to be many people listening.
As for grammar and language obsessions having anything to do with politics, it doesn't. That would have nothing to do with the characterization of Mr Miller as someone who probably leans to the right.
Could You tell me why you think he leans to the right? and provide links?
"The left" is not some unified group with a spokesperson"
Who said anything about a spokesperson?...you think the finger-pointing and blame came from one "person" ?.....DailyKos, Huffpos, ThinkProgess.....hell even TMZ...and the list goes on....sorry the left wrongfully and ignorantly pointed fingers and they are still doing it...go to any liberal blog, hell go to them all and see for yourself.....sorry
"And of course there are plenty of people telling both sides to STOP with the blame and accusations."
Where are they?....I know Obama did and I am proud of him for doing that but he is just about the only one of importance on the Left that did so....
I mean think about it...is the left going to tell everyone to stop the blame after they were the ones to start it with no reason at all?..they would have to admit fault..that they are a part of the "hateful rhetoric" they claim of others and say sorry......do you see that happening?
I was asking a simple queston, some home schoolers are well educated and some are not depends on who is doing the teaching. Does the question scare you?
Casper
Home schooled kids have the benefit of one on one teaching that can't possibly be matched in public schools. Parents must follow home schooling regulations (state by state) and their children must pass the curriculum (also state by state). In limited studies there is evidence that home schooled children do excel in college over their public schooled counterparts.
Some people actually believe that home schooling is intended to indoctrinate children. As if it's the parents who are evil and not the state. The mentality of some people is getting third Reich scary.
Home schooled kids have the benefit of one on one teaching that can't possibly be matched in public schools. Parents must follow home schooling regulations (state by state) and their children must pass the curriculum (also state by state). In limited studies there is evidence that home schooled children do excel in college over their public schooled counterparts.
Some people actually believe that home schooling is intended to indoctrinate children. As if it's the parents who are evil and not the state. The mentality of some people is getting third Reich scary.
As I said, it depends on who is doing the teaching at home, if they are not getting a good balanced education, including the sciences, then the child is being cheated. But we are getting bit off topic.
Casper
As I said, it depends on who is doing the teaching at home, if they are not getting a good balanced education, including the sciences, then the child is being cheated. But we are getting bit off topic.
Casper
The point I was making is that if the parents don't do it right the kids get placed into public schooling. It's regulated, so to say a child is cheated is just not the case.
I'll not remain off topic, but it was thrown out here to be debated.
Palin is defending herself not as "the right", but as an individual on the right who engaged in some questionable rhetoric.
She defended herself as someone who was grievously libeled. As to 'questionable rhetoric', no rhetoric short of that which creates an immediate and present danger will cause violence, that's first of all. Second, even if a person were provoked to violence it is the violent actor who bears the responsibility for her/his actions and no other.
What was questionable was attacking Sarah Palin as somehow being responsible for Loughner's actions before the blood had even dried on the pavement. In fact it wasn't questionable at all -it was execrable.
Could You tell me why you think he leans to the right? and provide links?
"The left" is not some unified group with a spokesperson"
Who said anything about a spokesperson?...you think the finger-pointing and blame came from one "person" ?.....DailyKos, Huffpos, ThinkProgess.....hell even TMZ...and the list goes on....sorry the left wrongfully and ignorantly pointed fingers and they are still doing it...go to any liberal blog, hell go to them all and see for yourself.....sorry
"And of course there are plenty of people telling both sides to STOP with the blame and accusations."
Where are they?....I know Obama did and I am proud of him for doing that but he is just about the only one of importance on the Left that did so....
I mean think about it...is the left going to tell everyone to stop the blame after they were the ones to start it with no reason at all?..they would have to admit fault..that they are a part of the "hateful rhetoric" they claim of others and say sorry......do you see that happening?
In my opinion, Mr Miller leans to the right by virtue of his tax protestor status, and by the rationales he uses to support that position. Namely that federal law does not apply to him, but only English common law. While he may indeed be a genius, his logic escapes me in why he would consider himself subject to English common law at all.
As for the rest, there are plenty of people like myself, both on blogs and on political forums, and legislators and the President, asking people to tone down the rhetoric, to stop with the blame and accusations. Just google, "asking for a civil discourse" and you will find plenty of instances.
As for your last paragraph, you seem to be heavily vested in a "who's worse" argument. When the argument isn't about who's the most vehement or egregious in their rhetoric, but instead the argument is about the future. It's about putting aside pettiness and insults and oneupsmanship, and finding common ground and common goals. Yes, there should be and will be a debate about achieving those goals. But the debate can't continue to be mired in muck with both sides tossing mud and sewage at one another. It's time to leave the muck behind, to clean ourselves off, to accord respect to one another, and to move forward TOGETHER.
Last edited by DC at the Ridge; 01-19-2011 at 02:22 PM..
She defended herself as someone who was grievously libeled. As to 'questionable rhetoric', no rhetoric short of that which creates an immediate and present danger will cause violence, that's first of all. Second, even if a person were provoked to violence it is the violent actor who bears the responsibility for her/his actions and no other.
What was questionable was attacking Sarah Palin as somehow being responsible for Loughner's actions before the blood had even dried on the pavement. In fact it wasn't questionable at all -it was execrable.
I agree. It was questionable attacking Sarah Palin as being in any way responsible for Loughner's actions. She is only responsible for her own actions. Loughner is only responsible for his.
But her rhetoric is laden with violent imagery and divisive terms and phrases. And while that may serve her agenda, I don't think it serves the larger political agenda. Congresswoman Giffords was asking people to tone down the rhetoric BEFORE she was attacked. And that was a laudable message. Because in order for our government to function effectively, the people in our government must be able to sit down and pound out effective legislation, the bulk of which is non-partisan. We hear about the partisan battles from the media, but the majority of our laws are not partisan, but our constructed form negotiation and partnerships between the legislators. That is why we have legislative caucuses, to provide legislators with opportunities to forge relationships with people they have common interests without regard to partisanship. It's hard to sit down at the negotiating table with someone who's just called you all sorts of names and characterized you as an enemy of the people. The rhetoric has become too divisive.
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