U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-17-2007, 07:17 PM
 
Location: alt reality
1,085 posts, read 2,151,945 times
Reputation: 937

Advertisements

"it is sad really..we coddle everything from our kids..people living at home till 35 or older( not talking about a short term with a time line and a plan thing here just the ones who never grow up)..we are told to love ourself to the point where we will sacrifice nothing for our own short term enjoyment..to our pets who now dont even have natural instinct anymore!

we will not let kids win or lose in sports, so that we nurture there self esteem..which actually turns them into narcissists who think the world revolves around them

The more I think about this the more i see it as the single reason that most relationship fail..everyone is sitting around thinking that they should get unlimited nurturing..whatever i need the SO should be willing a able to provide..when in truth a lot of the time it means that you need to put yourself on hold for the good of the whole..

Some where along the way we have been given the idea that life is easy and safe..it you nurture enough then the world is perfect.

Isn't it time for a little tough love?
"

I got the above post from another message board that I frequent and it really opened my eyes to some things. Is America too nurturing? We coddle our pets so much that they start to loose their natural instincts. We coddle our children so much that they don't know how to deal with disappointment. We have to "bribe" kids to clean up. We have to "bribe" kids to get good grades. What happened to kids doing these things because, "I'm the parent and I say so"? Have we taken the "everyone is a winner" "everyone is special" mantra too far? Everyone's afraid to loose. And if someone does loose, instead of getting back out there and going for it again, there is this attitude of "Well, its so and so's fault I didn't win." I've read an article where parents are actually going to job fairs with their kids who graduated from college and are talking with the interviewer! We've got 11yr olds weighing 200lbs and thinking its ok because "people should accept you for who you are". We've got parents paying rent or buying condos for their kids who are in college. What's wrong with the dorm, LOL...Well city-data, what are your thoughts?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-17-2007, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Ohio, but moving to El Paso, TX August/September
434 posts, read 1,608,769 times
Reputation: 304
IMO, I think a lot of kids are not being taught that it's ok to lose and to pick themselves up and try again when that happens and sometimes, you just plum don't win or get what you want.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2007, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Northeast
1,300 posts, read 2,532,623 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerP View Post
"it is sad really..we coddle everything from our kids..people living at home till 35 or older( not talking about a short term with a time line and a plan thing here just the ones who never grow up)..we are told to love ourself to the point where we will sacrifice nothing for our own short term enjoyment..to our pets who now dont even have natural instinct anymore!

we will not let kids win or lose in sports, so that we nurture there self esteem..which actually turns them into narcissists who think the world revolves around them

The more I think about this the more i see it as the single reason that most relationship fail..everyone is sitting around thinking that they should get unlimited nurturing..whatever i need the SO should be willing a able to provide..when in truth a lot of the time it means that you need to put yourself on hold for the good of the whole..

Some where along the way we have been given the idea that life is easy and safe..it you nurture enough then the world is perfect.

Isn't it time for a little tough love?
"

I got the above post from another message board that I frequent and it really opened my eyes to some things. Is America too nurturing? We coddle our pets so much that they start to loose their natural instincts. We coddle our children so much that they don't know how to deal with disappointment. We have to "bribe" kids to clean up. We have to "bribe" kids to get good grades. What happened to kids doing these things because, "I'm the parent and I say so"? Have we taken the "everyone is a winner" "everyone is special" mantra too far? Everyone's afraid to loose. And if someone does loose, instead of getting back out there and going for it again, there is this attitude of "Well, its so and so's fault I didn't win." I've read an article where parents are actually going to job fairs with their kids who graduated from college and are talking with the interviewer! We've got 11yr olds weighing 200lbs and thinking its ok because "people should accept you for who you are". We've got parents paying rent or buying condos for their kids who are in college. What's wrong with the dorm, LOL...Well city-data, what are your thoughts?
Yes, oh yes, definitely, absolutely, and HELL yes.

What is the point in diving for the ball at a little league game if you're going to get the same damn trophy as EVERYBODY ELSE?

Why do kids need to wear helmets on bikes these days? Pain teaches one not to do stupid things on a bike, and everywhere else for that matter. We used to jump 10 feet in the air on our bikes, and if you wore a helmet you'd be ridiculed.

Do kids play outside anymore? Or are we so afraid of pedophiles, drugs, and kidnappers we have to lock them up in the house with the Playstation. I remember when I was a kid a guy drove around our neighborhood trying to pickup little kids. Let's put it this way, I didn't see a thing That's right, the dads handled it the old fashioned way, lynch mob justice, lol.(with bats and other utensils of extreme affection) Maybe if we had some more of that these days these freaks would leave the kids alone? I guess I can't blame parents too much for "coddling" on that one.

A parent that goes to a job interview should have a fire hose turned on them by the prospective employer. That's not love, that's a child fetish.

I don't know, I think the problem is broader than how the kids are treated. It's how folks in the world are treated. Employers aren't looking to just hire these days, they're looking to screw the applicant as hard as they can. There is no dollar sign in the word "honor". Labor laws are a joke, and parents know it. So they're going in to guard them against what employers have turned into today. Money hungry _hor_s for investors. Most companies just don't give a rat's butt about their employees anymore.

Look at the way these pedos are treated too. You know that NBC special where they nabbed all those guys for meeting kids online? Guess what? They're tossing them all out of court. Nice. The barbarians have climbed the gate, and they're in the kingdom. They seemingly have more rights than we do. Where's Charles Bronson when ya need'em?

How about all these overcrowded sprawled out neighborhoods? There aren't enough roads for the cars, so it's become quite dangerous to ride a bike on the road these days. A plastic helmet isn't going to do squat, but I guess it makes mom feel better about sending little Johnny riding off down the street with his elbow pads, knee pads, and the rest of his Power Ranger costume. Where's Robert Moses when ya need'em? We need more roads in some parts of the country.

The point is, yeah, we need to make an adjustment. Kids need to not only learn, but experience disappointment once in a while. However, some of the stuff we shield them from these days is a sign of the times. We just made the wrong choices, and are protecting the wrong people.

~T
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2007, 08:55 PM
 
8,975 posts, read 15,910,507 times
Reputation: 3017
Default Cultural Collapse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerP View Post
"it is sad really..we coddle everything from our kids..people living at home till 35 or older( not talking about a short term with a time line and a plan thing here just the ones who never grow up)..we are told to love ourself to the point where we will sacrifice nothing for our own short term enjoyment..to our pets who now dont even have natural instinct anymore!

we will not let kids win or lose in sports, so that we nurture there self esteem..which actually turns them into narcissists who think the world revolves around them

The more I think about this the more i see it as the single reason that most relationship fail..everyone is sitting around thinking that they should get unlimited nurturing..whatever i need the SO should be willing a able to provide..when in truth a lot of the time it means that you need to put yourself on hold for the good of the whole..

Some where along the way we have been given the idea that life is easy and safe..it you nurture enough then the world is perfect.

Isn't it time for a little tough love?
"

I got the above post from another message board that I frequent and it really opened my eyes to some things. Is America too nurturing? We coddle our pets so much that they start to loose their natural instincts. We coddle our children so much that they don't know how to deal with disappointment. We have to "bribe" kids to clean up. We have to "bribe" kids to get good grades. What happened to kids doing these things because, "I'm the parent and I say so"? Have we taken the "everyone is a winner" "everyone is special" mantra too far? Everyone's afraid to loose. And if someone does loose, instead of getting back out there and going for it again, there is this attitude of "Well, its so and so's fault I didn't win." I've read an article where parents are actually going to job fairs with their kids who graduated from college and are talking with the interviewer! We've got 11yr olds weighing 200lbs and thinking its ok because "people should accept you for who you are". We've got parents paying rent or buying condos for their kids who are in college. What's wrong with the dorm, LOL...Well city-data, what are your thoughts?
CULTURAL COLLAPSE, I tell ya!! Seriously, though, I've been harping on this for years. Finally discovered this forum. All of the above is true. It is, as I've said, an enormous "softening" of the stern parameters of our Western Culture in a well-meaning attempt to make it kinder and gentler. What we're seeing now is that for every action, there's a reaction.
For every "nice" gesture we make toward someone we feel "compassionate" for (a disobedient child; a pregnant teen; a jail inmate; a "substance abuser", and on and on and on), there's a "reaction", in that someone we DON'T feel sorry for will step in and take advantage of our "niceness". The result is a sort of society-wide version of "spare the rod and spoil the child". It's simply written into our genes that too much compassion, freely given without any "strings" attached, will eventually backfire. "Those who seek heaven on earth can easily find hell"- or even "Be careful what you wish for, for you may just get it". Liberal social programs of all sorts frequently cause almost as much anger as they cause gratitude in their recipients.
In order to remedy this, we seek to "crack down" on the source of our frustration. But it's destined to fail, because our whole society has changed. Seeking to "crack down" on unruly teenagers, or on violent jail inmates, or on illegal immigrants results not in their "learning a lesson" or "seeing the error of their ways", but in feelings of persecution or anger. The people being "cracked down on" have no sense of any guilt, so any attempt to "shame" them falls on deaf ears. The rules of society that attached "shame" to unacceptable behavior no longer exist. Result--no shame, no guilt, no true "rehabilitation", and of course, no lesson learned.
Such forces as still exist to control our behavior are largely imposed from without (external force) rather than from within (ie, the conscience). Those "forced" to behave do so grudgingly and unwillingly. It works to a point, but it's no substitute for self-directed morality.
Short answer: Without moral guidelines in society, we're forced to come up with man-made regulations. The question then becomes "who put YOU in charge ?" Doesn't always work out....
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2007, 09:02 PM
 
532 posts, read 1,186,478 times
Reputation: 138
I work in a job in which I have contacts in 35 different countries. It's been my experience that America is the best place to do business. Working with the Europeans is like going to the DMV. All the employees think they need to do is show up at work everyday---if they have done that they have done their job.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2007, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,529,997 times
Reputation: 1198
This is a fascinating topic. I agree with the premises of your post. I had a much "rougher" childhood then some of my younger pampered siblings and am glad for it now, because they don't know how to take on the world on their own. I read an interesting article about this topic, with the author saying before - there was a standard code of behavior for kids. The adults all stood together. If you screwed up in school, the kid would understand that when they got home they were in for a verbal or physical whipping. Now the parents want to sue the school for damaging the kid's self- esteem. I think a lot of this has to do with parents being too busy and/or self-absorbed to spend time with their kids growing up and feeling guilty, so they are over nurturing and shower them with material stuff, over feed them, whatever their little hearts' desire. And they learn no responsibility or discipline. The education system is a joke, but what are the poor teachers supposed to do? They are babysitting a bunch of spoiled punks that have no interest in learning, and if they try to discipline their class they can lose their job. I don't blame a lot of teachers for getting jaded -you could not pay me enough to be a junior high school teacher. And just a general lack of respect for other people permeating our society. Part of it is our material culture, part technology that actually separates more than connects us. It cuts across socio-economic boundaries - some of the wealthiest families raise some of the most screwed up kids, who have the money and time to get into real trouble. What is the answer, besides trying to do the best you can with your own kids? Tough situation.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2007, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,997 posts, read 25,857,191 times
Reputation: 7036
Oh brother, lets get back to the days of pointed objects in the middle of the steering wheel and steel dashboards in the vehicles. And that bicycle helmet issue, why not just drop the kids from 50 feet and see who survives intact. Natural selection at it's purest form.

Sorry, but I've been around long enough, and through enough, to have a strong opinion on this issue. Bottom line is your parents had it much tougher than you did growing up, and their parents tougher still. It is just a slope, and our kids will tell theirs how tough it was growing up in the 2000's.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2007, 10:24 PM
 
8,975 posts, read 15,910,507 times
Reputation: 3017
Default conundrum

Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
This is a fascinating topic. I agree with the premises of your post. I had a much "rougher" childhood then some of my younger pampered siblings and am glad for it now, because they don't know how to take on the world on their own. I read an interesting article about this topic, with the author saying before - there was a standard code of behavior for kids. The adults all stood together. If you screwed up in school, the kid would understand that when they got home they were in for a verbal or physical whipping. Now the parents want to sue the school for damaging the kid's self- esteem. I think a lot of this has to do with parents being too busy and/or self-absorbed to spend time with their kids growing up and feeling guilty, so they are over nurturing and shower them with material stuff, over feed them, whatever their little hearts' desire. And they learn no responsibility or discipline. The education system is a joke, but what are the poor teachers supposed to do? They are babysitting a bunch of spoiled punks that have no interest in learning, and if they try to discipline their class they can lose their job. I don't blame a lot of teachers for getting jaded -you could not pay me enough to be a junior high school teacher. And just a general lack of respect for other people permeating our society. Part of it is our material culture, part technology that actually separates more than connects us. It cuts across socio-economic boundaries - some of the wealthiest families raise some of the most screwed up kids, who have the money and time to get into real trouble. What is the answer, besides trying to do the best you can with your own kids? Tough situation.
Bily4, permit me to take this to extremes (as you know I love to do) Years ago I read a book by an American woman who'd spent some years in Saudi Arabia. It was a surreal, almost nightmarish experience, particularly from the point of view of an "infidel" woman, and of course she had no desire to ever permanently "plug in" to that culture-HOWEVER-- she was struck by the fact that there was virtually NO THEFT, and that travelers could quite literally leave expensive cameras, watches, etc, right on the bench at the Riyadh Airport, walk off for 2 hours, and find all in order on their return. Why, we may ask? Because they'd CHOP YOUR HAND OFF for theft !! They really DID this, in public, each week or so. Result? Very few folks were attracted to a career as thieves. It turns our western stomachs to visualize this, but it's an extreme example of NOT sparing the rod....it works (at least if you want to hold on to your camera)
Remember the huge uproar over the American punk who decided to break off a few car antennas in Singapore some years back? CANED !! OUCH !! Result- VERY LITTLE teen vandalism in Singapore--do you BLAME them? I wouldn't commit vandalism either!
Not that we'd advocate anything like that here- but it does go to show that misplaced compassion obviously goes a long way to "enabling" sloppy behavior.
I had the unique experience some years back of working under a boss who was TOO NICE. We had a crew of 10. 8 of the folks did well under the "lax" administration, but the other two took ful advantage, and with the complete absence of ANY sort of discipline, morale eventually went into the toilet. The boss eventually was demoted for failing to maintain control. By being too "nice" to a few, you're in effect being "not nice" to the many.....
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2007, 10:35 PM
sun
 
Location: Central Connecticut
683 posts, read 2,059,493 times
Reputation: 448
The pampering problems can be viewed as the proverbial glass that's either half empty or half full.
Pampering has its positives or negatives, society has its positives and negatives, kids have their positives or negatives, having compassion has its positives and negatives, and being an SOB has its positives and negatives.
Why try to make all of these things out to be either all black or all white, when in reality they are all different shades of gray?
Yes, it takes a lot of wisdom and luck to recognize which short term courses of action can have long term ramifications, and that dwelling soley on the long term can have serious short term consequences.
There really isn't any perfect formula that works for all situations, every one of them is very unique.
Every child is born with a unique personality, and every family's situation is different.
It far to easy to criticize choices and second guess oneself. Maybe if the amount of pampering can be just slightly altered to a small degree, then the reasons for the negative views start to dissipate enough to turn the situation around into a positive.
It's like trying to achieve a lighter or darker shade of gray by adding a little bit of black or white to it.
Some kids don't receive nearly enough pampering, while others maybe receive way too much. It's the same with anything in life, whether it involves money, education, career, french fries, tv, games or whatever....
For many kids, life is way too complicated and there is so much expected of them. Some kids just can't handle it, while others just don't want to handle it, and then others flourish from the challenge.
That's where it comes back full circle to the personality and physical abilities that a person is born with and develops, and all of the other unique advantages and disadvantages that enter the equation.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2007, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,529,997 times
Reputation: 1198
macmeal very valid point. In my global travels perhaps the cleanest city I have ever seen is Singapore. Because as you mention... if you drop a gum wrapper there may be hell to pay! The interesting thing I remember about that caning incident is they conducted some public opinion surveys about that here in the states at the time - and there was a significant majority of the public that said, good for them, cane away! The little vandal deserves it! It shows you this has been an issue in the mind of the public for awhile now.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:29 AM.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top