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We all know that so many Calfornians are fleeing to Oregon (Portland) and Washington (Seattle) because of the higher-percent of white populations. It's pretty much ingrained in the minds of Californians that the whiter a city, the nicer it is (and the less white, the less desirable). That's why black-majority or Hispanic-majority cities in SoCal instantly get classified as "ghetto". Compton, South Central LA, Parts of Long Beach, San Bernardino, etc.
The unfortunate reality of the City Data forums is that the cities that most often get praised have a mostly-"white" culture, have higher white populations, etc. People glorify grand cities in Europe but how many people on these forums glorify big cities in South America, India, the Middle East, Africa, etc. Most people who write here hardly know a thing about any city besides those in N. America or Europe.
We live in a very racist culture and our perceptions about cities in general are inseparable from the "whiteness" and "color" of the general populations of those cities. I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here, but a discussion on race is always the white elephant in the room when people discuss city populations.
I agree with that assessment GatsbyGatz. Even beyond City-Data. Other forums and publications are constantly doing the same thing. It's like they have set the bar to achieve as being a select group of cities in Europe. Partly because they won't/don't include many countries into the list of developed countries. So the lists always compare to cities/countries considered developed.
We have our problems...but other than Europe, Canada or Australia I do not see most parts of the world being as welcoming to so many different cultures as the US! I did a study abroad program in Nicaragua, run by an American expatriate. He told me, the decision for one American to live there full-time was controversial enough. He then caused even more controversy by marrying a local girl. One white American living there and one inter-racial marriage caused controversy! Imagine large numbers of white Americans flooding into Nicaragua! I am not trying to start controversy or make any other points...I am just saying looking at the big picture, the United States is one of the least racist countries. No country is immune, so I am not saying we do not have our racial problems. I am just saying that it is definitely lesser than in Latin America, Africa, Middle East and Asia.
I've also done a program in Nicaragua (more specifically municipal Boaco/Teustepe) and it's extremely obvious why they'd be not too happy to see Americans and our private enterprise moving in... they don't want the same puppet governments that every other African/Latin American country with a large American/European expat class has. Calling that "racist" is pretty laughable. Also, did you magically forget our track record in Nicaragua or did you actually go there without knowing anything about our role in their political and financial instability?
I've also done a program in Nicaragua (more specifically municipal Boaco/Teustepe) and it's extremely obvious why they'd be not too happy to see Americans and our private enterprise moving in... they don't want the same puppet governments that every other African/Latin American country with a large American/European expat class has. Calling that "racist" is pretty laughable. Also, did you magically forget our track record in Nicaragua or did you actually go there without knowing anything about our role in their political and financial instability?
First of all, I knew very well the history of the US in that region...from William Walker to the US trained National Guard that killed Sandino and installed the Somozas to the Contra War, etc. So I strongly recommend that understand the argument presented before you before you start debating. Anyway, to compare modern-day Americans (those of which travel abroad tend to be quite progressive) to William Walker or a military complex supporting Somoza...Now that's what is laughable. A relatively small number of US citizens, like the one that I knew who dedicated his life to helping out Nicaragua, had a presence there that was very controversial. Like I said, the aid agency/community support organization that he headed was far from creating "private enterprise" and "puppet governments." He was a white, non-Latin, non-native Spanish-speaking individual. That was his only crime to receive the disapproval of many locals for residing there permanently. That is nothing more than a form of racism. Are you saying that large numbers of Canadians would be welcomed and tolerated in the same sense that the US allows for immigrants from Latin America. You would be naive to think that is the case. Racism goes many ways, not just in one direction. I am just suggesting that in terms of genuine tolerance of large numbers of people that are racial and culturally different, the United States is far more tolerant than most parts of the world.
First of all, I knew very well the history of the US in that region...from William Walker to the US trained National Guard that killed Sandino and installed the Somozas to the Contra War, etc. So I strongly recommend that understand the argument presented before you before you start debating. Anyway, to compare modern-day Americans (those of which travel abroad tend to be quite progressive) to William Walker or a military complex supporting Somoza...Now that's what is laughable. A relatively small number of US citizens, like the one that I knew who dedicated his life to helping out Nicaragua, had a presence there that was very controversial. Like I said, the aid agency/community support organization that he headed was far from creating "private enterprise" and "puppet governments." He was a white, non-Latin, non-native Spanish-speaking individual. That was his only crime to receive the disapproval of many locals for residing there permanently. That is nothing more than a form of racism. Are you saying that large numbers of Canadians would be welcomed and tolerated in the same sense that the US allows for immigrants from Latin America. You would be naive to think that is the case. Racism goes many ways, not just in one direction. I am just suggesting that in terms of genuine tolerance of large numbers of people that are racial and culturally different, the United States is far more tolerant than most parts of the world.
First of all, there are plenty of immigrant groups that the US has not tolerated coming into the country for quite a while... ask Haitians - a Latin American group - how "welcomed and tolerated" they've been in trying to immigrate to the US for the last three decades. Second of all, Nicaragua is a racially and culturally diverse country; if you spent any significant amount of time in Nicaragua then I'm sure you know the east coast of the country (Bluefields, Puerto Cabezas, etc.) is very different demographically from the inland region of the country (ex. Matagalpa) which is different still from the lakeside cities (Managua, Granada, etc.) and then there's all the various ethnic groups in the countryside. It's far from being a homogenous country and there's no shortage of white Nicaraguans (they constitute around 20% of the total Nicaraguan population) so your charge that the controversy around the American guy's residency revolved around his being white is very weak.
On the rest of your post I'm not going to bother explaining why the US is a racist country because frankly it doesn't need explaining.
First of all, there are plenty of immigrant groups that the US has not tolerated coming into the country for quite a while... ask Haitians - a Latin American group - how "welcomed and tolerated" they've been in trying to immigrate to the US for the last three decades. Second of all, Nicaragua is a racially and culturally diverse country; if you spent any significant amount of time in Nicaragua then I'm sure you know the east coast of the country (Bluefields, Puerto Cabezas, etc.) is very different demographically from the inland region of the country (ex. Matagalpa) which is different still from the lakeside cities (Managua, Granada, etc.) and then there's all the various ethnic groups in the countryside. It's far from being a homogenous country and there's no shortage of white Nicaraguans (they constitute around 20% of the total Nicaraguan population) so your charge that the controversy around the American guy's residency revolved around his being white is very weak.
On the rest of your post I'm not going to bother explaining why the US is a racist country because frankly it doesn't need explaining.
First of all, the examples of immigrants groups who were not welcomed in by-gone eras is irrelevant. That was a long time ago. In fact, I am sure most people have ancestors from groups that were not welcomed in by-gone eras. My ancestors were Roman Catholics who were clearly discriminated by the 1924 Immigration law limiting Catholic immigrants into the country. What does that have to do with anything? Nothing. The country of today is completely unrecognizable to that of the past. The fact remains is that this is 2013, not 1933. The United States in 2013 clearly tolerates the presence and immigration of large numbers of racially different peoples that most parts of the world would not. That is my point. You can point out what happened in whatever by-gone era about this and that; I am only concerned about the present and right now, we are one of the least racist countries out there (when you look at it from the angle of tolerance for the presence of some many racially different people).
Secondly of all, Nicaragua is "diverse" only to some extent. But you are comparing apples to oranges when you try to draw clear lines between the ethnic groups in Nicaragua. Some Nicaraguans may be more indigenous, some may be more criollo (Spanish). But the divide is not that clear and easily defined between these groups. In fact, they share relatively similar cultures; such as religion, language, customs, etc. so the "diverse" groups of different Nicaraguans are not so diverse on a cultural level. They certainly have much more in common with each other than with any white North American. (Note: the 20% of Nicaraguans who are "white" are criollo or of Spanish-descent, NOT blond-haired white Americans who speak English). As they call us, "gringos," the differences with us is large enough to put us in a completely separate category. Yes, the Afro-Nicaraguans and Miskitos are more of a clearly different racial group, but they are in an autonomous section in the remote eastern part of the country. Who knows what would happen if these groups were more integrated...would we have a conflict like Guatmalas' between the ladinos and indigenous people?! I do not know. I only know that the western, more populated portion of Nicaragua is not as "diverse" with people very different from each other as you would like to think. The people that are not clearly "Latin" in Nicaragua are just not tolerated in the same sense that "Latin" people are tolerated in 2013 America.
The point is how "racist" of a country we are is very, very subjective. I am approaching it from an angle that shows us we are one of the more/most tolerant in ways that other parts of the world would never be.
First of all, the examples of immigrants groups who were not welcomed in by-gone eras is irrelevant. That was a long time ago. In fact, I am sure most people have ancestors from groups that were not welcomed in by-gone eras. My ancestors were Roman Catholics who were clearly discriminated by the 1924 Immigration law limiting Catholic immigrants into the country. What does that have to do with anything? Nothing. The country of today is completely unrecognizable to that of the past. The fact remains is that this is 2013, not 1933. The United States in 2013 clearly tolerates the presence and immigration of large numbers of racially different peoples that most parts of the world would not. That is my point. You can point out what happened in whatever by-gone era about this and that; I am only concerned about the present and right now, we are one of the least racist countries out there (when you look at it from the angle of tolerance for the presence of some many racially different people).
Where did you see me talking about bygone eras? I'm talking about right now. You may not be aware of this but Haitians have largely not been able to immigrate into the US for the better part of the last three decades, particularly during the military-government and Jean-Bertrand Aristide days. Currently immigrating from Haiti has become nearly impossible again thanks to our policy following the Haiti earthquake. We've been far more tolerant of Cubans begging for political asylum despite Fidel and the communist party being our "sworn enemy" than we ever have of Haitians despite that the US military and the CIA have been heavily politically involved there for a century.
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Secondly of all, Nicaragua is "diverse" only to some extent. But you are comparing apples to oranges when you try to draw clear lines between the ethnic groups in Nicaragua. Some Nicaraguans may be more indigenous, some may be more criollo (Spanish). But the divide is not that clear and easily defined between these groups. In fact, they share relatively similar cultures; such as religion, language, customs, etc. so the "diverse" groups of different Nicaraguans are not so diverse on a cultural level. They certainly have much more in common with each other than with any white North American. (Note: the 20% of Nicaraguans who are "white" are criollo or of Spanish-descent, NOT blond-haired white Americans who speak English). As they call us, "gringos," the differences with us is large enough to put us in a completely separate category. Yes, the Afro-Nicaraguans and Miskitos are more of a clearly different racial group, but they are in an autonomous section in the remote eastern part of the country. Who knows what would happen if these groups were more integrated...would we have a conflict like Guatmalas' between the ladinos and indigenous people?! I do not know. I only know that the western, more populated portion of Nicaragua is not as "diverse" with people very different from each other as you would like to think. The people that are not clearly "Latin" in Nicaragua are just not tolerated in the same sense that "Latin" people are tolerated in 2013 America.
Since when is blond hair and English a prerequisite for being white? Spaniards aren't white? Rofl go tell them that.
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The point is how "racist" of a country we are is very, very subjective. I am approaching it from an angle that shows us we are one of the more/most tolerant in ways that other parts of the world would never be.
One fundamental difference you continue to ignore is that said latinos and other immigrant groups in the US pose no threat to the American power structure, or more specifically to the white power structure. white Americans on the other hand pose a very real threat to the balance of power in countries like Nicaragua, both because they have infinitely more economic clout than the average Nicaraguan and also because the legacy of the Spanish colonial system still favors white people over the mestizo/afro carribean/indigenous populations.
And no, our country being racist is not a matter of subjectivity.
Where did you see me talking about bygone eras? I'm talking about right now. You may not be aware of this but Haitians have largely not been able to immigrate into the US for the better part of the last three decades, particularly during the military-government and Jean-Bertrand Aristide days. Currently immigrating from Haiti has become nearly impossible again thanks to our policy following the Haiti earthquake. We've been far more tolerant of Cubans begging for political asylum despite Fidel and the communist party being our "sworn enemy" than we ever have of Haitians despite that the US military and the CIA have been heavily politically involved there for a century.
Since when is blond hair and English a prerequisite for being white? Spaniards aren't white? Rofl go tell them that.
One fundamental difference you continue to ignore is that said latinos and other immigrant groups in the US pose no threat to the American power structure, or more specifically to the white power structure. white Americans on the other hand pose a very real threat to the balance of power in countries like Nicaragua, both because they have infinitely more economic clout than the average Nicaraguan and also because the legacy of the Spanish colonial system still favors white people over the mestizo/afro carribean/indigenous populations.
And no, our country being racist is not a matter of subjectivity.
You think that our immigration policies are really targeting Haitians? Lots of people can't immigrate to the United States, there is a limit on every country! Even the US has to put limits on the high number we let in. We do not have the land and resources to allow everyone in. This is not about race, it is about being practical. Yes, Cubans have been always been allowed in...however, this is due to Cold War politics, nothing more. The US has always been sympathetic to people fleeing "communist" regimes. The Cuban policy is NOT about race, it is about political ideology from the Cold War era. What does some legal technicality in our immigration policies have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that my friends experiences of people telling him to go back to his own country is the same that a Haitian immigrant would experience in the United States? Do you really think one Haitian, marrying one local woman, in one city would cause the same level of controversy as an American immigrating to down there? Do you really believe that?!
Secondly, I am NOT comparing blond hair and blue eyes to being white! Of course Spaniards are white Europeans. However, blond hair and blue eyes are not "latin" features. People of Central or Northern European descent are not the "white" people that are mentioned in Nicaragua's demographic statistics. They mark you as a foreigner in the sense that someone with ancestry from Seville would not experience. They mark you as an American that does NOT share your language, culture, customs, manners, etc. Basically, a whole different culture and RACE.
Third, your talk about a "white power structure" definitely suggests to me that perhaps YOU have some prejudices that you need to over come. If you do, then no amount of logic will change your mind. I am sorry if that sounds a bit condescending, but people with this kind of thinking can't seem to get out a 1942 mentality that the "system is keeping the man down." I have no idea of what you really think. It is just my personal experiences that people that think that "minorities" in the United States are some kind of helpless victims tend to have some prejudices themselves. Even if you are not prejudice, you you suggesting that one American immigrant to Nicaragua is a threat to a so-called "power structure" in Nicaragua? If any "power structure" is being threatened..when try to get a job as a non-Spanish speaking person in Miami. So you suggestion that there is some "power structure" that does not change with millions of Latinos but WOULD change with one American in Nicaragua is just plain silly.
Finally, no, our country being racist may not be subjective after all...it may be just plain WRONG!
You think that our immigration policies are really targeting Haitians? Lots of people can't immigrate to the United States, there is a limit on every country! Even the US has to put limits on the high number we let in. We do not have the land and resources to allow everyone in. This is not about race, it is about being practical. Yes, Cubans have been always been allowed in...however, this is due to Cold War politics, nothing more. The US has always been sympathetic to people fleeing "communist" regimes. The Cuban policy is NOT about race, it is about political ideology from the Cold War era. What does some legal technicality in our immigration policies have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that my friends experiences of people telling him to go back to his own country is the same that a Haitian immigrant would experience in the United States? Do you really think one Haitian, marrying one local woman, in one city would cause the same level of controversy as an American immigrating to down there? Do you really believe that?!
Secondly, I am NOT comparing blond hair and blue eyes to being white! Of course Spaniards are white Europeans. However, blond hair and blue eyes are not "latin" features. People of Central or Northern European descent are not the "white" people that are mentioned in Nicaragua's demographic statistics. They mark you as a foreigner in the sense that someone with ancestry from Seville would not experience. They mark you as an American that does NOT share your language, culture, customs, manners, etc. Basically, a whole different culture and RACE.
Third, your talk about a "white power structure" definitely suggests to me that perhaps YOU have some prejudices that you need to over come. If you do, then no amount of logic will change your mind. I am sorry if that sounds a bit condescending, but people with this kind of thinking can't seem to get out a 1942 mentality that the "system is keeping the man down." I have no idea of what you really think. It is just my personal experiences that people that think that "minorities" in the United States are some kind of helpless victims tend to have some prejudices themselves. Even if you are not prejudice, you you suggesting that one American immigrant to Nicaragua is a threat to a so-called "power structure" in Nicaragua? If any "power structure" is being threatened..when try to get a job as a non-Spanish speaking person in Miami. So you suggestion that there is some "power structure" that does not change with millions of Latinos but WOULD change with one American in Nicaragua is just plain silly.
Finally, no, our country being racist may not be subjective after all...it may be just plain WRONG!
Oh please Anyone with two eyes and a functioning brain knows who has capital and the power that comes with it in the United States of America. Hint: not the tens of millions of immigrants. Expats on the other hand have an extremely disproportionate amount of power in just about every country touched by colonialism despite that their numbers in any given country are usually in the mid to low thousands or even the hundreds.
And Nigerians don't share a language, culture, custom, manner, etc. with South Africans either, are they "different races" too? Rofl just admit your example of "racism" isn't actually racism.
Where did you see me talking about bygone eras? I'm talking about right now. You may not be aware of this but Haitians have largely not been able to immigrate into the US for the better part of the last three decades, particularly during the military-government and Jean-Bertrand Aristide days. Currently immigrating from Haiti has become nearly impossible again thanks to our policy following the Haiti earthquake. We've been far more tolerant of Cubans begging for political asylum despite Fidel and the communist party being our "sworn enemy" than we ever have of Haitians despite that the US military and the CIA have been heavily politically involved there for a century.
Since when is blond hair and English a prerequisite for being white? Spaniards aren't white? Rofl go tell them that.
One fundamental difference you continue to ignore is that said latinos and other immigrant groups in the US pose no threat to the American power structure, or more specifically to the white power structure. white Americans on the other hand pose a very real threat to the balance of power in countries like Nicaragua, both because they have infinitely more economic clout than the average Nicaraguan and also because the legacy of the Spanish colonial system still favors white people over the mestizo/afro carribean/indigenous populations.
And no, our country being racist is not a matter of subjectivity.
South Florida's full of haitians. The countries it's hardest to immigrate to America from are countries that already have a lot of people here over the years such as canada, britain, mexico
Where did you see me talking about bygone eras? I'm talking about right now. You may not be aware of this but Haitians have largely not been able to immigrate into the US for the better part of the last three decades, particularly during the military-government and Jean-Bertrand Aristide days. Currently immigrating from Haiti has become nearly impossible again thanks to our policy following the Haiti earthquake. We've been far more tolerant of Cubans begging for political asylum despite Fidel and the communist party being our "sworn enemy" than we ever have of Haitians despite that the US military and the CIA have been heavily politically involved there for a century.
Since when is blond hair and English a prerequisite for being white? Spaniards aren't white? Rofl go tell them that.
One fundamental difference you continue to ignore is that said latinos and other immigrant groups in the US pose no threat to the American power structure, or more specifically to the white power structure. white Americans on the other hand pose a very real threat to the balance of power in countries like Nicaragua, both because they have infinitely more economic clout than the average Nicaraguan and also because the legacy of the Spanish colonial system still favors white people over the mestizo/afro carribean/indigenous populations.
And no, our country being racist is not a matter of subjectivity.
Stop with the white power nonsense. Black men have a EASIER time getting a job in America than whites and it's not even close. All you have to be is somewhat educated and you'll get everything. Every time I see a real bad grammatical error on a top news site it always seems to be a black man that made the mistake.
If america has such a white superiority complex than how come almost all interracial crime in the south is black on white? white people don't speak up even though this is obvious. But when one black like trayvon or jordan Davis die the whole community, including many southern whites, go UP IN ARMS ABOUT IT. These are the same people that don't say anything when it's much more likely to happen against them. How come racist rappers like Boosie, plies, weezy, etc. that are openly against whites and spit racial slurs against them in their songs are so popular among all races in the south?
If being a black man in the south is so hard how do 9 black men who have been convicted of coke dealing, grand theft auto, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, armed robbery, battery on leo, etc. get the opportunity to coach a youth football team?? How do they get these jobs with those records and then start gambling on the little kids games? http://espn.go.com/photo/2012/1029/o...ridagamble.pdf
If the south was so against black men than why did they let them wear grillz in the police force until recently?? Guns, not grillz: Ban on tattoos, grills for cops in Broward | The Daily Caller
if the law in the south(the "most racist" place in racist america) is so against black men then how do 20 black men beat 1 white man to within a inch of his life in MOBILE ALABAMA of all places, with only ONE of them getting arrested and released the same day on a 7500 bond even though he already has a record that includes firing shots at people??? And to top it all off the reason the 20 blacks did this is "for trayvon martin" and it wasnt even considered a hate crime in ALABAMA and no whites speak up either like they did for trayvon.
Beating of Alabama man not seen as hate crime, despite claim 'Trayvon' invoked | Fox News
If the south is so against blacks how do a bunch of blacks attack 1 white ref(even tho there's 2 other black refs on the field at the same time who go unharmed, hmm racism??) and nothing happens only a couple get arrested. And how do these coaches leading these attacks even get these jobs when there's a lot of good hard working people with no criminal record who can't get anything? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3QOqfY2EQE
if the south is so racist against blacks how do blacks with charges of armed robbery, cocain distribution, aggravated assault with a firearm, and battery on a leo ALL IN ONE get to be the head coach of another youth football team that ATTACKED A WHITE REFEREE. And why is his bond only 1000 for assaulting the ref even though he already had all those priors? And there was 4 refs, 3 black and only 1 white, and he chose to punch the white one...that's not racism right?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93qgZsB_A-U
Point is, blacks have it easy in the south and America. Even when they get decent jobs after years of hustling, robbing, shooting, etc. they still do stuff like this and then scream racism at the whites!!!
And blacks kill whites here all the time and nothing is said. but one black dies and all hell breaks loose. If anything the south is the best place to be black, especially Florida. The further south you go the better.
There's plenty more stories like this but that would take all day. Stop with the "white supremacy" nonsense.
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Anyone with two eyes and a functioning brain knows who has capital and the power that comes with it in the United States of America. Hint: not the tens of millions of immigrants. Expats on the other hand have an extremely disproportionate amount of power in just about every country touched by colonialism despite that their numbers in any given country are usually in the mid to low thousands or even the hundreds.
