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The allegations of torture and coerced confessions eventually led to a still-standing moratorium on Illinois' death penalty.
Burn, baby, burn.
P.S. Barack Obama banned waterboarding as a form of U.S. sanctioned torture in January, 2009.
3...2....1 before someone says that was a bad thing for America, Obama showed weakness and we need to be able to torture people in a manner we see fit.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still."
The allegations of torture and coerced confessions eventually led to a still-standing moratorium on Illinois' death penalty.
Burn, baby, burn.
P.S. Barack Obama banned waterboarding as a form of U.S. sanctioned torture in January, 2009.
3...2....1 before someone says that was a bad thing for America, Obama showed weakness and we need to be able to torture people in a manner we see fit.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still."
-Ronald Regan
If waterboarding is not torture then you would hae no problem with me do it to your daughter or wife, right? If me putting a plastic bag on your head and tightening it until you are about to pass out or die then again you would have no proble having it done to your loved ones, righ? How about rape, no real pain just the act, no harm no fuss, would that work for you also. Maybe we can strip your family and pose them for the camera like we did in Iraq, no problem with that either? The thing is we are supposed to be a Nation based on Laws and Justice when we ignore those we are no better than those we abuse. Honorable Men Do Not Torture Their Prisoners.
Casper
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,827,481 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
If waterboarding is not torture then you would hae no problem with me do it to your daughter or wife, right? If me putting a plastic bag on your head and tightening it until you are about to pass out or die then again you would have no proble having it done to your loved ones, righ? How about rape, no real pain just the act, no harm no fuss, would that work for you also. Maybe we can strip your family and pose them for the camera like we did in Iraq, no problem with that either? The thing is we are supposed to be a Nation based on Laws and Justice when we ignore those we are no better than those we abuse. Honorable Men Do Not Torture Their Prisoners.
Casper
Damn straight. I think that the use of waterboarding was a huge stain on the USA's reputation.
P.S. Barack Obama banned waterboarding as a form of U.S. sanctioned torture in January, 2009.
Ah, no. U.S. military and law enforcement personnel have been tried and convicted for waterboarding since at least 1902. That's been established many times and on many threads.
If waterboarding is not torture then you would hae no problem with me do it to your daughter or wife, right?
Casper
Yeah, except for the fact that his wife and daughter weren't two of three of the world's most wanted terrorists and top Al Qaeda leaders. Seriously, people act as if we were waterboarding people for traffic violations. THREE people were waterboarded, three. And they were the worst of the worst. It's also purported that a lot of useful intelligence was gleaned from it.
So let me ask you this. If you are against any and all forms of "torture" because "Honorable Men Do Not Torture Their Prisoners", are you okay with the fact that we may miss very important intelligence and innocent people may actually die because of it? Is that okay in your mind because it's not in mine. I'd rather waterboard a few really bad people who are suspected to have information on upcoming terror plots than coddle the terrorists.
Yeah, except for the fact that his wife and daughter weren't two of three of the world's most wanted terrorists and top Al Qaeda leaders. Seriously, people act as if we were waterboarding people for traffic violations. THREE people were waterboarded, three. And they were the worst of the worst. It's also purported that a lot of useful intelligence was gleaned from it.
That's not "purported" by any neutral and informed people. Unless by "useful" you mean "useful for helping Bush and co. construct a pretense for invading Iraq."
Quote:
So let me ask you this. If you are against any and all forms of "torture" because "Honorable Men Do Not Torture Their Prisoners", are you okay with the fact that we may miss very important intelligence and innocent people may actually die because of it? Is that okay in your mind because it's not in mine. I'd rather waterboard a few really bad people who are suspected to have information on upcoming terror plots than coddle the terrorists.
We don't have to go as far as talking about honor or coddling anyone. It's against the law. Do you understand that?
...we may miss very important intelligence and innocent people may actually die because of it?
Keeping in mind that we the public are not privy to everything, can you point out one single instance where torture has resulted in saving lives of innocent people? What goodness has come of the Defense Intelligence Agency's pro-torture stance?
I believe it's been proven that people who are tortured to extract truthful information will say anything to get the torture to stop. Torture simply does not work, unless its objective is to instill fear, hate and insanity.
Yeah, except for the fact that his wife and daughter weren't two of three of the world's most wanted terrorists and top Al Qaeda leaders. Seriously, people act as if we were waterboarding people for traffic violations. THREE people were waterboarded, three. And they were the worst of the worst. It's also purported that a lot of useful intelligence was gleaned from it.
So let me ask you this. If you are against any and all forms of "torture" because "Honorable Men Do Not Torture Their Prisoners", are you okay with the fact that we may miss very important intelligence and innocent people may actually die because of it? Is that okay in your mind because it's not in mine. I'd rather waterboard a few really bad people who are suspected to have information on upcoming terror plots than coddle the terrorists.
First off many of those we tortured were eventually sent home because they trurned out to Not be Terrorists. Secondly information gained under torture is always unreliable, even the CIA and Military admit that. Suspected of having information, what does that mean? What happens if they do not have any, do we say oh sorry about that afterward? The end does not justify the means, you may think so but I do not and neither should the Leaders of this Nation, no matter which Party they belong to. Ever seen someone tortured? I have, guess what they got out of them, nothing that had the least bit of use. Did the NVA get real info from our pilots, heck no, what they did get was the pleasure of harming another human being that they hated, it takes a special sort of sadist to torture people. No, I will never agree with Americans working for our government torturing anyone, even if we do take some casulties in the process, it is the price we pay to be better than our enemies, it is the price Honorable Menpay to retain their Honor and the Honor of their Nation.
Casper
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