America's worst nightmare, the rise of Middle East democracies. (Palestinians, enemies, weapons)
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Amen to that! What the heck are we doing with bases in Korea, Japan, Germany, etc. This is ludicrous. We may not agree on the role of the Fed Govt here at home, but who among us really believes we should have hundreds of bases all over the world, for what seems forever and ever.
I don't know about among us, but I'm sure folks like General Electric, General Dynamics, Sperry Univac, Boeing, Armalite, Chrysler Defense, Lockeed Martin, Haliburton, Brown and Root, to name just a few. Not to mention, they have plants in every state, so thus guarantee support from every Congressman on the basis that they bring jobs to their districts. One of the greatest scams ever played on the American people. Of course if you build them, you have to use them or sell them, and if peace breaks out, what does this do for the worlds largest arms dealer?
Your problem is you see it can ONLY be one or the other....
Interesting commentary on Al Jazeera this morning about how the USA doesn't really figure into this at all...no burning of the US flag,no Anti-American sentiment.....
The USA is not being seen as very important by the protesters.
It is a relief for once not to see that. I don't think the US has a strong history of interfering in Egypt as with Iran. In Iran, in 1979, it was a different story. We were the enemy from the get-go. Those students in Iran knew the Eisenhower Admin orchestrated a coup to depose a democratically elected govt there.
We have all heard how Iraq is to be a new model of democracy in the Middle East, whether they like it or not. Afghanistan is another nation building effort of America to bring some form of US friendly quasi-democracy of our choosing, whether they like it or not.
However there are also places like Palestine, where Hamas won open elections in 2006, but Hamas is not the kind of people the US would like to see lead the Palestinian people. So the US labels them a terrorist organization, openly supports Abbas and the Palestinian Authority (which is little more than the remnants of a re-branded PLO) The PA then illegally seized power in the West Bank from the democratically elected government of Hamas, but while they might be back stabbing tyrants, they are OUR backstabbing tyrants and are willing to play US/Israeli ball even at the expense of their own people.
We crushed a democracy because it wasn't a democracy of our choosing, how ironic and how typical of us.
Recently we have seen revolution take place in Tunisia where the US first condemned it, then decided to support it once it was shown they were going to succeed. The real problem with this is that it provided an example to other precarious nations in the Middle East.
Egypt and it's US backed oppressive government that calls itself a democracy with President Mubarak holding office for 30 years. Even the US can't keep a straight face when using the terms democracy and Egypt in the same sentence, but once again, they may be tyrants, but they are OUR tyrants and Mubarak kept his people under his thumb and controlled by any means necessary and with the aid of billions of US tax dollars. So the US has poured billions into Egypt in order to ensure he maintains this control over a population of people that would just assume have nothing to do with the US and openly considers war against Israel.
Whoa... not good huh.
Then we have Lebanon which in a rather amazing event, elected a Shiite moderate in a normally Sunni supported area. Another nightmare for the west, the Sunni and Shiite putting aside differences and offering a unified position against the west. Holy Jesus Joseph and Mary, we can't have the Muslims unified, this would mean a lot of things and none of them good for the US.
However the real fear lay to the east a bit, in a small little kingdom called Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia there is a population of extremist Sunni's who if you recall decided it was in their best interest to fly planes into our World Trade Centers. Now this and other like groups feel the House of Saud is little more than puppets for the US and many people mumble under their breath of a government overthrow in Saudi Arabia, and in fact have even made a few anemic attempts to do just this.
What would the world be like if the population of Saudi Arabia rose up against its government and decided to form a new government? Chances are this will not happen, at least today, but it is a possibility and it is something that is considered in a very serious matter in the basement of the Pentagon.
The worst possible scenario for "US interests" is for democracy to become an actual goal of Middle Eastern nations. Not just democracy but democratic governments that refuse to play by Washington rules.
America must continue, as we have in the past, to support what is in our best interests throughout the world.
Now we have a "President" (although in name only), that supports the "Muslim Brotherhood", one of the largest terrrorist organizations in the world. This is simply astonishing. It is anything but good for America.
Do you really think Egypt is going to be better off? Do you really think this is about establishing "Democracy"? You are being deceived. This is about establishing theocracy, and an entire Middle East under Sharia Law.
The Muslim Brotherhood, in addition, has as one of it's goals, a Muslim America.
I think there is a distinction between what many Americans would consider a democracy, and what people around the world would consider a democracy. There is nothing inherent about a democracy that excludes religion from government. The separation of government and religion in the United States is not based on a vision of democracy, it is based on a vision of freedom, explicitly freedom of religion. The ideas we as Americans have about freedom of religion are not shared by people globally. And the conflicts we have in the United States about freedom of religion are not considered admirable around the world.
When Hilltopper discusses Middle East democracies, those democracies may be democracies in the sense that the power in the government is derived from the people. The new governments may be responsive to their citizens, but may be responsive in different ways than the United States government. Different problems require different solutions. But if the people have a greater voice in their governments and government policies, it will be a victory for democracy.
Sadly, the victory for democracy may have repercussions for the United States that we don't like. That is the legacy of many long-standing policies where our country talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk. We have been complicit in supporting many authoritarian regimes in that part of the world, both economically and politically, even while we talked about freedom and democracy. We did this because it benefited ourselves. We can argue that it benefited the region in question as well, because it promoted stability, and that stability led to economic growth, but in authoritarian systems, the growth did not mean wealth for the people, it meant wealth for a select few. And bitterness over that inequity, bitterness about being used, is the end result.
Culturally, America is part of the global structure. Our products have become global products. Our movies are seen around the world. We have changed the world in many subtle ways, and who we are has imbued a global identity that never existed before. That is part of our legacy, too, and how that will play out is still to be seen.
America must continue, as we have in the past, to support what is in our best interests throughout the world.
Now we have a "President" (although in name only), that supports the "Muslim Brotherhood", one of the largest terrrorist organizations in the world. This is simply astonishing. It is anything but good for America.
Do you really think Egypt is going to be better off? Do you really think this is about establishing "Democracy"? You are being deceived. This is about establishing theocracy, and an entire Middle East under Sharia Law.
The Muslim Brotherhood, in addition, has as one of it's goals, a Muslim America.
You are sadly misinformed.
So democratic ideals and principles are to be dispensed with when it doesn't suit the shaping of the globe in our image.
I may be misinformed, but the difference between you and I is I have principles.
America must continue, as we have in the past, to support what is in the military industrial complex and big business interests throughout the world.
Now we have a "President" (although in name only), that supports the "Muslim Brotherhood", one of the largest terrrorist organizations in the world. This is simply astonishing. It is anything but good for the military industrial complex and big business.
Do you really think Egypt is going to be better off? Do you really think this is about establishing "Democracy"? You are being deceived. This is about establishing theocracy, and an entire Middle East under Sharia Law.
The Muslim Brotherhood, in addition, has as one of it's goals, a Muslim America.
You are sadly misinformed.
Fixed some of your post
Also, it is not our business to hold back the self determination of other people on the planet even if we disagree with their ideologies whatever they may be.
But if we persist, then don't be surprise of they fight back and we find a bomb going off on our soil, but then you will say, "See, I told you they can't be trusted"
If I'm not mistaken, most of US oil imports are from Canada and Venezuela.
Of course it doesn't matter if the US didn't use a single drop of Middle East oil, as oil is pooled in a global market pool and if the price of oil per barrel doubles in the Middle East, a place we don't even buy from, the global pool prices increase accordingly. So we end up paying the added cost anyway.
we all do Canada and the U.S consumers pay the global price but chances are the gas you use was from Canada, US and refined in the US but we pay more because oil giants have a monoply on it and the govronment gets it's share through taxes on the fuel but I doubt my local cheron will sell it for $2 bucks a gallon when they could get $5 bucks a gallon by the end of the year
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