Will Obama Go Down as the President Who Lost Egypt? (interview, death)
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Obama's policy towards Egypt was the one he inherited from GwB whose policy was the one he inherited from Bill Clinton whose policy was the one he inherited from Bush senior. It is also, essentially, the same policy the rest of the world was pursuing. It sound real nice to say we should be the "vanguard of freedom" but, in the real world, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Now, its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback but no-one really saw this coming ... not even the Egyptian government. Perhaps a few visionaries could see the discontent mounting but they were the exception.
Its easy to talk about freedom and dictatorship but those lines are blurry at best. The fundamental dissatisfaction in Egypt is probably more economic than it is about political freedom. It is all very well to take a libertarian view of freedom but all too often the overthrow of one dictatorship can lead to the establishment of a more restrictive one. So, sometimes a more pragmatic policy is wiser than an idealistic one.
Then there is the economic and logistic issue. 8% of world trade goes through the Suez canal. 1.5 million barrels of oil/day go through the canal. Not having the canal adds 12 days to shipping between the US and the Middle East. Freedom notwithstanding, the canal is important enough that we have a strategic interest in who controls it.
Now, I would love to see a western style democracy emerge in Egypt. But, realistically, its not going to happen. However, if we can nudge them towards economic and democratic reforms which makes the life of the average Egyptian better while steering them away from a Libyan or Iranian style regime then I think we are doing well. It will be better for the average Egyptian and it will be better for American interests.
I always thought Obama's job was to get the best outcome for American interests.
As selfish as some people might think, the only important thing to me is whether or not there is a positive outcome for America. I'd like the people in Egypt to be free, and no longer having to live under a dictatorship. however, if the end result of all this is that Egypt turns into another Iran, I'd rather Mubarak stays in power there.
I don't want the US government to intervene, I would hope our government continues to appeal to people in Egypt for a peaceful resolution to the situation. Sometimes you have to let the chips fall where they may and carry on with what results.
Much of the reason the people are revolting against Mubarak is because many in Egypt see him as a paid for dictator with the US and Israel behind the curtain pulling the strings and whether true or not, this is how he is perceived. For the US to intervene, even on the side of pro-democracy types would be seen as the US meddling in the affairs of people who have an honest desire to govern themselves and I believe this would be counter productive.
Despite the chatter about the Muslim Brotherhood, it seems the consensus (as best as there is at the moment) that if there were elections, the best they would do is 20-25%, so concerns that this will be the next government is are a bit exaggerated. Watching Al Jazeera and RT feeds, a large number of protesters I saw were chanting, "The people and the army are one", which seems to indicate as others here have pointed out that the military has a good deal of support from the people and both groups are eying Elbaradi as a possible interim leader, which I think is a positive thing. I'm willing to bet the US government would be pleased to see Elbaradi as an interim leader as well.
Yes there are a lot of concerns over what may happen when the dust settles but right now the biggest source of opposition to this revolt and the largest support for Mubarak is coming from Israel. After all, the US tax payer has been paying for Israel's peace and security with Egypt for 30 years, of course they are worried.
I see. I was just wondering if you were in favor of a military intervention.
I think we are probably having discussions with the military leaders in Egypt, telling them that we will help support them, to make sure that no radical group tries to take advantage of the situation.
I think the current VP will end up taking over from Mubarak, and then elections will be held next January.
Obama's policy towards Egypt was the one he inherited from GwB whose policy was the one he inherited from Bill Clinton whose policy was the one he inherited from Bush senior. It is also, essentially, the same policy the rest of the world was pursuing. It sound real nice to say we should be the "vanguard of freedom" but, in the real world, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Now, its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback but no-one really saw this coming ... not even the Egyptian government. Perhaps a few visionaries could see the discontent mounting but they were the exception.
Its easy to talk about freedom and dictatorship but those lines are blurry at best. The fundamental dissatisfaction in Egypt is probably more economic than it is about political freedom. It is all very well to take a libertarian view of freedom but all too often the overthrow of one dictatorship can lead to the establishment of a more restrictive one. So, sometimes a more pragmatic policy is wiser than an idealistic one.
Then there is the economic and logistic issue. 8% of world trade goes through the Suez canal. 1.5 million barrels of oil/day go through the canal. Not having the canal adds 12 days to shipping between the US and the Middle East. Freedom notwithstanding, the canal is important enough that we have a strategic interest in who controls it.
Now, I would love to see a western style democracy emerge in Egypt. But, realistically, its not going to happen. However, if we can nudge them towards economic and democratic reforms which makes the life of the average Egyptian better while steering them away from a Libyan or Iranian style regime then I think we are doing well. It will be better for the average Egyptian and it will be better for American interests.
BTW, if we wanted to own it, we could, but we are just too damn nice to do that.
Lol, you break me up. I guess it's just like you are too nice to own Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Afghanistan, North Korea, Central America,Iran and all of the other places you have failed to take over either by force of arms of by your puppet dictators.
That kind of attitude is precisely why so much of the world hates America because they mistakenly think that most Americans share such ideas.
I just say thank God there is a man in the white house today that thinks differently.
Egypt belongs to Egypt. It is not our's to lose or win.
Okay, did i miss something, is there someone on TV running around claiming that the United States owns the country and people of Egypt? Or did we add another star on the flag and I'm the last to notice?
Lol, you break me up. I guess it's just like you are too nice to own Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Afghanistan, North Korea, Central America,Iran and all of the other places you have failed to take over either by force of arms of by your puppet dictators.
That kind of attitude is precisely why so much of the world hates America because they mistakenly think that most Americans share such ideas.
I just say thank God there is a man in the white house today that thinks differently.
Yeah, he just thinks the US government owns the American people. Oh yeah, and he thinks the feds own all our money too.
What exactly do you think 0bama is doing that would credit him with ownership of the eventual outcome that occurs in Egypt? Whether the outcome is good, or bad, how exactly do you think the president of our country has any control over it?
He has as much control over positive outcome as he has with "losing Egypt". That's my point exactly. You and others here can't hide the excitement of the possibility of everything going horribly wrong only so you can blame it on the president. Don't you see anything wrong with that?
And if it continues to be an ally while becoming a democracy, then will you credit Obama for it? Or not?
You still have not answered my earlier question. None of you Obama bashers have. Here is the question one more time: will you credit Obama for a positive outcome in Egypt, or are you only going to blame him if the outcome is negative?
I'm already crediting Obama for being the best president since FDR and unfortunately there is a 2 term limit now so he will not be able to impliment his ideas the way FDR did.
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