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The problem is, Libertarian principles also assume corporations (largely the reason corruption prevails over people) are akin to individuals, not an artificial entity that ought to be regulated via the governments.
The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.
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The right to trade includes the right not to trade — for any reasons whatsoever. Where property, including land, has been taken from its rightful owners by the government or private action in violation of individual rights, we favor restitution to the rightful owners.
This directly disputes your statment about corporations since the LP is in favor of protecting, through the courts, anyone who is harmed by through trade.
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2.6 Monopolies and Corporations We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals. We oppose government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest. Industries should be governed by free markets.
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corporations (largely the reason corruption prevails over people
This is simply not true. It is government that has forced and cajoled corporations into corruption through corrupt lobbies to affect regulations, fees, fines, and corrupted government / corporate monopolism.
Not everyone who disagrees with a socialist agenda is a pure Liberatarian or a far right winger..
The lefties in this country have control over the media, the polticians and the far left agenda has been set..
I do not see your point in bringing up a debate which is no relevent..
I dont see a major shift or movement in this country to bring it to the extreme right or into pure liberatarianism..
What I see is a movement to stop the country from moving further left and becoming more socialistic then ever..
We really need to quit using buzz words like "right and left". If you mean Progressive, then say it. If you mean Progressive liberal, say it. If you mean Socialist, then write it. If you mean a Greenie, trhe write it. If you mean Libertarian, mean it but, please know what a Libertarian is, or any of these terms, before anyone goes using that term.
This business of "rightees and leftees" is a silly pigeon hole that has most of the nation confused and therefore don;'t know crap from shionola about what ideologies are in control in this nation.
You don't need to be a scientist to notice the pattern here....The nicest places to live in the World have the highest tax rates, and their government account for the biggest share of their economies......
Just the opposite of what the right wingers/libertarians/tea baggers keep whining about!
You ignore the many other factors that contribute to a standard of living such as being business friendly.
You also conveniently ignore all of the big government countries that are at the opposite end of the scale from Denmark, etc., such as North Korea, China, Venezuela, etc.
And I would rather have freedom and live in poverty than have a big government tell me how to live. Some of us just value freedom. Sorry that you don't, but that's your choice.
We really need to quit using buzz words like "right and left". If you mean Progressive, then say it. If you mean Progressive liberal, say it. If you mean Socialist, then write it. If you mean a Greenie, trhe write it. If you mean Libertarian, mean it but, please know what a Libertarian is, or any of these terms, before anyone goes using that term.
This business of "rightees and leftees" is a silly pigeon hole that has most of the nation confused and therefore don;'t know crap from shionola about what ideologies are in control in this nation.
Right and Left is the only constant in the political spectrum and is in noway a "buzz" word. Political parties are subject to change..
Sounds to me like Einstein is no longer heard here...
Try again.
Try what again? Ask the same questions? Einstein may be too logical to be heard here. And trust me, you shouldn't worry about Einstein, just respond to the questions as asked. I need your opinion to further the discussion. Can't do it? Say so.
The example of privately owned minerals (oil and gas) is the perfect example of why freedom and private property leads to prosperity. In the U.S., individuals generally own the minerals under their land unless they sell them. This has led to millions of people who own minerals in the U.S. Each one gets a payment when those minerals are produced.
BUT, it doesn't stop with production payment to the private landowners. Thousands of people must be paid to obtain the rights from landowners in the form of oil and gas leases, creating thousands of jobs. People must then be hired to buy and sell the leases between oil and gas companies. Even more must be hired to manage the data systems to keep tabs on ownership. The jobs that have been created through private ownership of minerals is tremendous.
Contrast the U.S. approach with the Mexican approach where all minerals are owned by the state. In Mexico, only the national government can produce minerals. Rural areas are impoverished and the wealth of the nation is squandered by a corrupt, inept bureacracy (Pemex, the Mexican national oil "company").
This directly conflicts with your claim that private property leads to inequality. When there is TRUE private property, ownership will be divided among thousands of people and the result is much greater income equality then if the government simply owns everything. In Africa, the situation is much more dire even than Mexico despite the resources in question (diamonds) being even more valuable than minerals generally found in the U.S. Through the African example, we can see that the more resources are owned by the government and not private individuals, the greater amount of starvation and poverty will exist in the country.
The conclusion is clear: Strong private property laws and traditions lead to prosperity for the greatest number. A lack of property rights leads to inequality and impoverishment for the masses.
Last edited by TheEconomist; 02-03-2011 at 01:29 PM..
The problem is, Libertarian principles also assume corporations (largely the reason corruption prevails over people) are akin to individuals, not an artificial entity that ought to be regulated via the governments.
Corporations are made of people. Why would a group of people working in a corporation not have the right to be protected just like an individual?
And corporations are not more corrupt than any other entity. And they are much less corrupt than government. Just consider the history of governments. They are the most corrupt entities in history. Government brought us slavery, wars, restrictions on freedom, and they take our money and waste it.
Originally Posted by padcrasher
You don't need to be a scientist to notice the pattern here....The nicest places to live in the World have the highest tax rates, and their government account for the biggest share of their economies......
Just the opposite of what the right wingers/libertarians/tea baggers keep whining about!
I love these rants with no data..
I've seen many reports describing how our poor live better then the middle class of Europe..
You cannot compare America with 300 million people to places like Norway which is independently wealthy with only 5 million people. and yet still touted as successfully socialist.
You cannnot comapare apples and oranges.. Not to mention that this country has not been truely capitalists in decades...
Right and Left is the only constant in the political spectrum and is in noway a "buzz" word. Political parties are subject to change..
I agree, most of the nation is confused.
You use these terms and never define them. They are not legitimate political terms unless you care to generalize about those who particpate in the process.
Stick to my point, if you want to talk about it. What did I confuse? Do libertarians not support the idea of corporate entities as deserving of same rights as a person? Do corporations engage in polluting political environment?
Instead of trying to manufacture confusion, try answering the questions directly.
Libertarians do not support corporations as being individuals that was labeled by our current government. In no way should corporations have any rights and or any benefits or laws written for any company small or large. No tax money should come to any corporation from the government unless authorized to assist in constitutional mandates like defense. These special interests started when government abandoned its principles on what the role of the government is and its limited constitutional authority. While aurgements can be made on defense spending it does not say we have the right to police the world, be in the UN, NATO and or any other expansive government role in the constitution. This would cut military spending in half and only defend our nation.
If any corporation engages in criminal and activities that due harm to individuals those individuals have the right with our current laws to sue the corporation if they engage in polluting my private property.
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