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Now we are jamming. This is the PnC that I know and am drawn to train wreck style.
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal
When we see the majority of Muslims behaving peacefully and allowing religious freedom throughout predominately Muslim nations, then we can have a conversation about "moderate Muslims". Until then, actions of the many speak louder then words of the few.
I used to live in Egypt. Ma'adi. A suburb just south of Cairo. The estimated population of Cairo in those days was ehh 10 million, maybe more. I never saw one act of violence in the 2 years that I was there. I was never harassed or made to feel uncomfortable in any way shape or form. I'd think that if I the 'majority of Muslims' were violent in 2 years I would have witnessed at least one act of violence. [/trying to have rational discourse with MOgal]
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Originally Posted by GlockUnderMyKilt
Taqiyya.
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Interesting. I knew of the practice but did not know the word.
Funny thing about these witch trials. Once accused of being a witch there was no way to prove yourself innocent.
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Originally Posted by Friedrich Spee in the Cautio Criminalis in 1631
1. Incredibly among us Germans, and especially (I am ashamed to say) among Catholics, are popular superstitions , envy, calumnies, backbiting, insinuations, and the like, which, being neither punished nor refuted, stir up suspicion of witchcraft. No long God or nature, but witches are responsible for everything.
11. Therefore the old woman is put in prison. A new proof is found through a second dilemma: she is afraid or not afraid. If she is (hearing of the horrible tortures used against witches), this is sure proof, for her conscious accuses her. If she does not show fear (trusting in her innocence), this too is a proof; for witches characteristically pretend innocence and wear a bold front.
So now you have created a situation where any Muslim, regardless of their actions, is presumed guilty. If they are outwardly violent, then they are guilty. If they are outwardly peaceful, then they are hiding their true intentions.
To think that it is Muslims who are so often decried as living in the 14th century.
I used to live in Egypt. Ma'adi. A suburb just south of Cairo. The estimated population of Cairo in those days was ehh 10 million, maybe more. I never saw one act of violence in the 2 years that I was there. I was never harassed or made to feel uncomfortable in any way shape or form. I'd think that if I the 'majority of Muslims' were violent in 2 years I would have witnessed at least one act of violence. [/trying to have rational discourse with MOgal]
You've lived among some Muslims and have concluded they're not violent. Beg your pardon. That you've lived in Cairo and have such an unassailable grasp of fundamental logic is too much for me to respond to.
I should stick to what I know: football. And by the way, I once went to a football match and nobody scored a single goal. Therefore, all football games must end 0-0.
Funny thing about these witch trials. Once accused of being a witch there was no way to prove yourself innocent.
I don't recall any witch publishing books or making videos fully explaining their intent. But if you want to learn how to deal with Kuffars there's a library of media available to you.
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Originally Posted by filihok
So now you have created a situation where any Muslim, regardless of their actions, is presumed guilty. If they are outwardly violent, then they are guilty.
So what other evidence should we collect beyond them being outwardly violent before it's OK to consider them guilty?
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Originally Posted by filihok
If they are outwardly peaceful, then they are hiding their true intentions.
Not necessarily. They may be apostates, which makes them OK. Outwardly peaceful Muslims would go far to build bridges by sharing a beer and a bacon roll with their kuffar neighbours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
To think that it is Muslims who are so often decried as living in the 14th century.
You've lived among some Muslims and have concluded they're not violent. Beg your pardon. That you've lived in Cairo and have such an unassailable grasp of fundamental logic is too much for me to respond to.
Fair enough.
Do you hold MOgal to the same level of logic? What evidence is there that 'the majority of Muslims' do not behave peacefully and do not allow religious freedom?
Do you only use logic when it benefits your preconceived ideas? That's no logic at all.
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I should stick to what I know: football. And by the way, I once went to a football match and nobody scored a single goal. Therefore, all football games must end 0-0.
Is this you addressing me or MOgal? Because it works equally well both ways.
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So what other evidence should we collect beyond them being outwardly violent before it's OK to consider them guilty?
Legally? Due process.
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Not necessarily. They may be apostates, which makes them OK. Outwardly peaceful Muslims would go far to build bridges by sharing a beer and a bacon roll with their kuffar neighbours.
Yes. The Qur'an forbids the eating of pork. Which you apparently find strange. What that has to do with violence I'll let live in your mind.
[quote[Incorrect. They live in the 8th century.[/quote]
Incorrect. They live in the 21st century AD. According to the Gregorian calendar.
Do you hold MOgal to the same level of logic? What evidence is there that 'the majority of Muslims' do not behave peacefully and do not allow religious freedom?
Wait a sec, in addition to arguing with you I also have to argue on behalf of someone I don't even know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
Legally? Due process.
So whether demonstratedly violent Muslims are guilty is really a question of law? I get it. So what we should have done to the Beslan terrorists is slap them with indictments and give them their day in court.
Shame they shredded themselves along with hundreds of children before the lawyers could get the paperwork done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
Yes. The Qur'an forbids the eating of pork. Which you apparently find strange. What that has to do with violence I'll let live in your mind.
Along with pork the Qur'an and the Hadith have a lot to say about how to conduct onesself with kuffars. Much of that I find strange as well.
I don't know...let's ask the families of all the killed abortion clinic workers and let's also ask every single gay person in this country...oh, and let's also ask all the women who weren't allowed to vote...
I don't know...let's ask the families of all the killed abortion clinic workers and let's also ask every single gay person in this country...oh, and let's also ask all the women who weren't allowed to vote...
As a free individual who would like to see religious hocus-pocus get binned, I'm delighted that you'd highlight the failings of Christianity.
But are you seriously trying to draw equivalence between the violence of a few maniacal American Christians and the mass murdering, doctrinally-motivated muslim?
Let me ask you: how many abortion clinic workers have been murdered, ever? Now compare that with the number of people killed in a single religiously motivated muslim massacre like, say, the Madrid train bombing. So how does the murderous nature of Christianity stack up to your beloved Religion of Peace?
I'm likewise delighted you dared to bring up the issue of the rights of women and homosexuals to exist. Please educate us how much better enlightened Islamic adherents would treat them vs. the kuffar.
Oh yes. we can see how peaceful Islam is all over the world Honor killings, women are slaves and in many polls a huge percentage of muslims believe killing for Islam is perfectly acceptable. A few moderates does not Islam make. REALLY!
I don't know...let's ask the families of all the killed abortion clinic workers and let's also ask every single gay person in this country...oh, and let's also ask all the women who weren't allowed to vote...
Better yet, let's ask all the aborted babies! Oh wait, they didn't get a chance to have a voice.
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Honor killings, women are slaves and in many polls a huge percentage of muslims believe killing for Islam is perfectly acceptable. A few moderates does not Islam make. REALLY!
