Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Thank you, you've just invalidated the posts of others who observe that the evil mobile communication device is the root cause of people driving poorly and unsafely in traffic.
jk482 ... you obviously aren't familiar in the slightest with the complexity of the airspace system and the workload of a single pilot aircraft operation. There are, in fact, intersections in the sky, and potential traffic conflicts in high use airspace which can yield deadly results if a mistake is made by a pilot. Oh, and I have had children on bicycles, pedestrians, dogs, other pilots, and airport maintenance people dart out in front of my airplane while in ground operations while communicating on my radio or my mobile phone. And I've had professional pilots cut me off with a miss of just inches while on a final approach as they blasted into controlled airspace where I had a clearance to land (combined tower and pro pilot f-up that almost cost both of us our lives). My concerns go directly to the heart of required complex skills being performed while simultaneously maintaining communications.
I am fully aware of the complexity of airspace, and it's completely different than driving a car. When you fly, you don't have to come to stop signs, stop lights and you don't have to stay within the lanes. Granted you do need to keep your aircraft within a certain area, it's nothing like driving in a big city, or even on a country road. I grew up sitting behind a pilot (my father) so please don't assume I "obviously know nothing."
And you've had kids on bikes dart out in front of your airplane? lol, you're kidding, right?
jk482 ... yes, indeed ... we had a bunch of experimental aircraft builders at the airport I was then based at who brought their children down to play around their hangars while they worked on building their airplanes on the weekends. The kids rode their bicycles around the grassy common grounds between the hangars ... and sometimes darted out from between hangars onto the ramps and taxiways when they were playing baseball or football.
I even had one time taxiing back to my hangar where the kids darted out in front of me and pedaled like crazy on the taxiway ahead of me, only to stop after a few yards and look back to see if I was still there ... and then pedal away again to repeat the process a few more times. It never dawned on them to get off the damn taxiway and out of the airplane's way.
When I got done having a little conversation about the incident with their dad after parking my plane ... he, his children, and his airplane were gone within the next week. A busy GA airport simply isn't a playground for the kids, and if I hadn't been really on top of watching out for the brats, things might have turned out differently with them playing chicken with a moving airplane.
We also had a bunch of ultra-light pilot wanabee's at that airport, who didn't have a clue about driving on the ramps ... right of way to moving aircraft, etc. They didn't take the rules and common practices very seriously, and were pretty ignorant about how to do stuff at an airport. They drove around the place on the ramps and taxiways like it was just a normal thing to do, and were pretty much into their party atmosphere. Lots of brewskis after an ultralight lesson ... and then they didn't drive too well around the airport environment.
I've even had a similar (repeated) encounter with the local sheriff's deputies at our current based little GA airstrip. They were (apparently) monitoring the airstrip for operations, and used to come immediately to the airstrip from the local town (2 miles away) if they saw someone land. I had several times where they came hauling a_s blind around the dirt apron onto the ramp in front of my t-hangar, almost ramming my plane as I was pulling up in front of the door. I literally created flat spots on my tires from the violent stopping I had to do to avoid the deputy's skidding SUV. They'd finally recognize my plane as I unlocked my hangar door ... then drive off without a word. You'd think they had enough ability to recognize the airplane's paint scheme as I came in on final over the town ....
Unless you were solo PIC in your Dad's airplane ... your aviation experience simply doesn't qualify you to be knowledgeable about communicating and operating an aircraft. There's a big difference between having all the pilot privileges, responsibility and being a passenger .... especially in single pilot GA IFR conditions. If you haven't been in that seat, then your basis of comparison simply doesn't exist except in your imagination ..... there really are a lot of high density operations in the sky in various locations and it calls for a lot of vigilance to see and avoid the other guys .... oh, and also a lot of open communications about where you are and what you're doing and your intentions. Try heading into a popular destination like un-towered Sidney, NE on a nice Saturday (everybody heading to Cabela's) when there's 50+ aircraft there and you'll learn all about an aviation traffic jam ... but then, you've never been to such a destination in your plane, have you? not even in your fantasies ... because otherwise, you'd know that such situations exist instead of your ordered universe of the world of flight.
I agree, it doesn't matter whether you're holding the phone, or have it attached to your ear - it's still a HIGHLY dangerous distraction!! Oy vey, living in the Bay Area, this is a constant problem... as if our drivers aren't crazy enough, tailgating me at 85mph, they have to add another danger. Just the other day I almost got hit by a GIANT SUV, when he was busy yakking away on the phone. Idiot decided to switch lanes without looking, and didn't even notice when I blared the horn & was forced onto the shoulder. My friend was in the car too, so she rolled down the window (this was on a surface-road - not freeway, thank goodness) and yelled "GET OFF THE PHONE, YA MORON!"
Anyway, I would definitely support a ban on phone usage in cars... even though I do occasionally use mine (only for legitimate reasons, like running late, or if someone calls me), but I'd be willing to sacrifice that option for my safety. I actually drive a stick-shift, so it's nearly impossible for me anyway, unless I'm cruising in 5th on the highway.
Oh, and here are two recent stories on the dangers... I was actually trying to find one particular story (which I remembered reading last week), and came across a number of similar ones. Proof that this IS a huge problem!
There are already distracted-driving laws on the books in every state. Don't take away my right to CAUTIOUSLY and CAREFULLY use a cell phone in my car, just because a few idiots can't chew gum and walk at the same time.
Hey, it's dangerous to change the channel on the radio, too, or to have a heated argument with a passenger, or to pick up the bottle the baby just dropped in the back seat. You can't eliminate risk on the road. You CAN, however, fine careless drivers ... who are gonna be careless whether they have a phone in their hand or not.
Those "Hang Up and Drive" bumper stickers really irritate me. Don't assume all drivers are bad because they're on the phone, or that all phone users are bad drivers. Whenever I see one of those, I pick up the phone and call someone, and make sure the driver sees me.
For the record, I've been in two accidents, ever. One involved a deer running out in front of me, and the other involved a young lady running a red light and hitting me. Neither one had anything to do with my being on a cell phone.
And I've been using cell phones in the car since back when they had the big bulky bag phones, with the handset wired into the bag and the antenna that you rolled down your window for and mounted it on top so you could stick it outside the car to get reception. I've driven literally hundreds of thousands of miles, many of them while I was on the phone. I'm no more distracted than when I start signing along with a good song on the radio. Some of us really can multitask.
I'm so tired of people thinking "ban this, ban that" is a solution to everything. Seems like it's always OK until someone wants to ban something that affects you, and then of course it's a different story. Just enforce the distracted-driving laws, make people take responsibility for their actions, and leave the rest of us alone. Stop being busybodies and trying to restrict others' choices and freedoms.
I'm sorry, but this kind of stuff really gets me fired up!
In the two accidents I've been in where the other person was at fault, neither of them were drunk. But that sure didn't lead to the logical conclusion that we should let people go tearing around the roads while liquored up.
The difference, of course, being that it is entirely possible to operate a cell phone in a car and still drive safely, whereas it's impossible to drive safely if you're drunk. Apples and oranges.
The difference, of course, being that it is entirely possible to operate a cell phone in a car and still drive safely, whereas it's impossible to drive safely if you're drunk. Apples and oranges.
You can't categorically claim either, really. You'd be surprised how delayed your reaction times can be while talking on a cell phone. It's pretty much on par with that of a drunk driver.
You can't categorically claim either, really. You'd be surprised how delayed your reaction times can be while talking on a cell phone. It's pretty much on par with that of a drunk driver.
Yes, I agree. Studies have been done to prove this.
YoAdrian-
Just because you've been involved in two accidents that had nothing to do with cell phones doesn't mean it's not a problem. Had you been on your cell phone either one of those times, the accidents could have been worse.
You're right that the radio is a distraction, but it's nearly impossible for any police officer to see someone switching the station - especially now that many of the buttons are right on the steering wheel. Holding up a phone to your ear is much more visible so it upsets people.
If a baby's bottle falls to the floor, thats unexpected. Voluntarily picking up your cell phone to make a call is not unexpected, it's intentional. You can't compare the two. But then again, if you'd like to compare the two, then that just helps my case saying that cell phones actually do distract drivers.
You can't eliminate risk on the road but you can take the proper steps to reduce it.
That being said, Hang Up And Drive!!!!
Last edited by jeremeyk482; 07-22-2007 at 12:21 AM..
jk482 ... yes, indeed ... we had a bunch of experimental aircraft builders at the airport I was then based at who brought their children down to play around their hangars while they worked on building their airplanes on the weekends. The kids rode their bicycles around the grassy common grounds between the hangars ... and sometimes darted out from between hangars onto the ramps and taxiways when they were playing baseball or football.
I even had one time taxiing back to my hangar where the kids darted out in front of me and pedaled like crazy on the taxiway ahead of me, only to stop after a few yards and look back to see if I was still there ... and then pedal away again to repeat the process a few more times. It never dawned on them to get off the damn taxiway and out of the airplane's way.
When I got done having a little conversation about the incident with their dad after parking my plane ... he, his children, and his airplane were gone within the next week. A busy GA airport simply isn't a playground for the kids, and if I hadn't been really on top of watching out for the brats, things might have turned out differently with them playing chicken with a moving airplane.
We also had a bunch of ultra-light pilot wanabee's at that airport, who didn't have a clue about driving on the ramps ... right of way to moving aircraft, etc. They didn't take the rules and common practices very seriously, and were pretty ignorant about how to do stuff at an airport. They drove around the place on the ramps and taxiways like it was just a normal thing to do, and were pretty much into their party atmosphere. Lots of brewskis after an ultralight lesson ... and then they didn't drive too well around the airport environment.
I've even had a similar (repeated) encounter with the local sheriff's deputies at our current based little GA airstrip. They were (apparently) monitoring the airstrip for operations, and used to come immediately to the airstrip from the local town (2 miles away) if they saw someone land. I had several times where they came hauling a_s blind around the dirt apron onto the ramp in front of my t-hangar, almost ramming my plane as I was pulling up in front of the door. I literally created flat spots on my tires from the violent stopping I had to do to avoid the deputy's skidding SUV. They'd finally recognize my plane as I unlocked my hangar door ... then drive off without a word. You'd think they had enough ability to recognize the airplane's paint scheme as I came in on final over the town ....
Unless you were solo PIC in your Dad's airplane ... your aviation experience simply doesn't qualify you to be knowledgeable about communicating and operating an aircraft. There's a big difference between having all the pilot privileges, responsibility and being a passenger .... especially in single pilot GA IFR conditions. If you haven't been in that seat, then your basis of comparison simply doesn't exist except in your imagination ..... there really are a lot of high density operations in the sky in various locations and it calls for a lot of vigilance to see and avoid the other guys .... oh, and also a lot of open communications about where you are and what you're doing and your intentions. Try heading into a popular destination like un-towered Sidney, NE on a nice Saturday (everybody heading to Cabela's) when there's 50+ aircraft there and you'll learn all about an aviation traffic jam ... but then, you've never been to such a destination in your plane, have you? not even in your fantasies ... because otherwise, you'd know that such situations exist instead of your ordered universe of the world of flight.
You say that there were children in the taxiway. Tell me, how often does this happen? And in considering how often it happens, and that you're in the taxiing for a fraction of the entire flight, it hardly makes the comparison seem legitimate.
Second, I'm not claiming to be a pilot or so knowledgeable about flying that I can outsmart a pilot. I'm simply saying that distractions while flying and distractions while driving are two completely different circumstances. You being such an advanced pilot and seemingly intelligent, I'm surprised you can't see this.
jk482 ... (quotes) "I'm fully aware of the complexity of airspace .... I grew up sitting behind a pilot", then ".... I'm not claiming to be a pilot or so knowledgeable about flying that I can outsmart a pilot. I'm saying that distractions while flying and distractions while driving are two completely different circumtances."
Since you now admit ... after being so adamant that you were knowledgeable about aviation, having sat behind a pilot for so many of your tender years ... that you really don't know squat about flying and the skills and mental processes that are required for safety in aviation, you sir, are coming from a position of profound ignorance to make any assertion about the correlation of concentration required to operate an airplane and operate a car.
Having further ridiculed me for my statements made from my personal experience about airport operations from your position of absolute ignorance, you've done little to display your intelligence (if any ... I'm trying to be kind about your possibility of intelligence here and allow that you may have some) as opposed to your emotional response to mobile phones. Your claim that you grew up with a pilot certainly didn't imbue you with any real piloting knowledge or insight into the man's thought processes unless you're some prodigy that picked it up by osmosis, which I highly doubt.
As a pilot (and most certainly not "an advanced pilot", just an older surviving one) ... I can assure you that the mental energy levels of flying safely in single pilot GA are far more intense and complex than driving a car.
Since a main point of this thread has been that using a device for communications is so devastating to one's ability to think and respond, it's a very basic false premise that you're operating from. I can categorically state that your repeated assertion that " .... distractions while flying and driving are two completely different circumstances" is baloney you've fabricated solely from your vivid imagination to support your view and is without any basis in fact.
Which brings us back to your assertion that device based communications and operating a vehicle are not compatible or safe operations and mobile phones should be banned. I say that's not the problem; inept, incompetent, and inconsiderate drivers are the fundamental problem.
Taking away their mobile phones will not turn them into competent and safe drivers. There are already enough laws on the books regarding how to operate a vehicle and those laws are what need to be enforced to get poor drivers off the road.
Many people have repeatedly demonstrated their ability to repeatedly operate their vehicles safely for a long time and utilize the convenience of mobile communications.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
