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Old 02-09-2011, 12:14 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 6,270,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
People also ignore intent. The 14th was passed for a particular reason. Giving citizenship to illegals was not it.

It didn't and does not give citizenship to illegals or aliens. It provides citizenship to those born here.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:19 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 6,270,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Considering that the 14th was an amendment, and did change the Constitution, not sure what your point is?

Not sure what you're getting at, but the 14th Amendment was proposed and ratified the correct way: Through a Constitutional Convention.


Its all explained in the US Constitution, Article 5

Article Five of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


You cannot subvert the US Constitution by passing State level bills or statutes on matters that the US Constitution controls.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,328,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Absolutely not. It is better to keep the crazy people in one place. If we give it back to Mexico, the crazies will just move into other states.
So true. Why before you know it, even San Francisco might have a share of unbalanced individuals.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,328,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
It didn't and does not give citizenship to illegals or aliens. It provides citizenship to those born here.
And it was passed specifically to end the charade of counting African-Americans as 3/5 persons.

Its intention was certainly not to provide a shortcut to citizenship for the offspring of illegal immigrants. Anyone who argues otherwise is being disingenuous.

It is unfair to pillory Arizonans for wanting to control the flow of illegals into their state, when the federal government, for the most blatantly partisan reasons, refuses to enforce both border regulations and the legal restrictions aimed at employers hiring illegals.

Arizona has challenged the federal government to live up to its responsibilities to enforce the laws already on the books. There is nothing unreasonable about this. It remains disheartening that the response has been little more than a barrage of insults from the progressive media and its puppets in the blogosphere.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:19 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,196,724 times
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I applaud Arizona lawmakers for doing what federal lawmakers don't have the political will to do. Good for them!
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:28 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 6,270,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
And it was passed specifically to end the charade of counting African-Americans as 3/5 persons.
That was the original intent. However, that is not what the Amendment stated.

The US Constituion can be quite literal, and very simple in its text. The 14th Amendment is such an Amendment. Short, to the point and specific

Quote:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
there is no mention of blacks
there is no mention of specific races that are affected by this Amendment
there is no mention of exclusion of any particular race or status of a person while on US Soil

All persons born or naturalized, is quite specific and to the point. Anyone who is trying to inject any other type of meaning into this amendment is being wholly dishonest

Quote:
Its intention was certainly not to provide a shortcut to citizenship for the offspring of illegal immigrants. Anyone who argues otherwise is being disingenuous.
So what? Care to show us numbers of how these offspring actually impact the economy? Cause that is usually the argument that follows this loose reasoning.

The funny thing is that because they're citizens from birth, they become legitimate children within our system and grow to be adults that pay back into the system. They "use" our system for what 18 years, After that its 45 years of servitude, paying taxes back into our system. They'll pay more back by working than they did take in all of their years as a minor.

Now what the hell is wrong with that?

Quote:
It is unfair to pillory Arizonans for wanting to control the flow of illegals into their state, when the federal government, for the most blatantly partisan reasons, refuses to enforce both border regulations and the legal restrictions aimed at employers hiring illegals.
And its unfair to the REST of the US for a rogue state with sloppy legislation that looks to pass UNCONSITUTIONAL laws, looking to circumvent the US Constitution

The statue would be shot down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional .02 seconds after it passed.

Quote:
Arizona has challenged the federal government to live up to its responsibilities to enforce the laws already on the books. There is nothing unreasonable about this. It remains disheartening that the response has been little more than a barrage of insults from the progressive media and its puppets in the blogosphere.
Arizona could ask its pussified Representatives in the House and Senate in Washington to come up with an immigration bill that is supported by a majority on both sides.

I'm all for immigration reform (sending all the illegal immigrants back, but also changing some of the laws that make it difficult for immigrants to become US Citizens in the first place)

But, the cowards they are, they are taking the cowardly way out, passing Unconstitutional laws.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:29 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 6,270,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
I applaud Arizona lawmakers for doing what federal lawmakers don't have the political will to do. Good for them!

applaud the criminals of the Arizona legislature? by passing this law (it won't pass btw), it'll be knocked down by the Supreme Court as being Unconstitutional.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:46 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,196,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
applaud the criminals of the Arizona legislature? by passing this law (it won't pass btw), it'll be knocked down by the Supreme Court as being Unconstitutional.
Criminals? I call them patriots and heros! Don't be so sure about what SCOTUS will decide. I think they'll uphold it, or more likely, refuse to review it. They are sensitive to which way the political wind is blowing.
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