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How can you on the one hand say that the Ottomans were never considered illegitimate rulers of Palestine while on the other hand you refer to the Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire? Clearly the Arab population would not have revolted if they considered their Ottoman masters to be a legitimate authority?
Secondly you haven't mentioned what the Arabs were promised by T.H. Lawrence. They were promised independence and self-determination for their loyalty in the revolt against the Ottomans, and they were betrayed. Britain and France split Arabia between themselves into tiny artificial countries drawn on a map by bureaucrats. That is not what the Arabs signed up for, you can hardly blame them for hating the British occupiers as a result.
Thirdly and most severely, you completely mis-represent the reason why Arabs view Israel as illegitimate. The vast majority of the Jews in Palestine post-war were foreigners fleeing from Europe and the Soviet Union. They migrated en masse against the wishes of the Arab population of Palestine and did so illegally under the British 1939 White Paper on Jewish Immigration. The Jews waged a terrorist war against the British, blowing up hotels, setting off carbombs, and all the other usual assorted extremist apparatus. For the most part the Jews in Palestine were illegal immigrants who migrated to the area deliberately to steal it from its rightful inhabitants and achieved that by weight of numbers and terrorist tactics against the British. It is not possible for anyone who views this matter objectively to look at the country called Israel and consider it anything other than a moral abomination. It's not irrationality on the part of the Arabs that they, "object the existence of a Jewish state even on an inch of land." I'm a complete atheist devoid of any religious sentiment or historical attachment to Islam whatsoever and I can see clearly that Israel is worthy of objecting to. It's probably too late for it to disappear now, but they aren't offering Palestinians a right of return to their dispossessed homes, they aren't offering compensation and they certainly aren't stopping their illegal expansion into the West Bank and stealing more land which isn't theirs.
Eoin
What about the Arabs who moved to Palestine in the early twentieth century to look for work? Work that was created when the Jews moved there and created an advanced economy. Would you consider those Arabs to be illegal immigrants? They came from Egypt, Jordan, and other places because of the higher wages, settled, had many kids, and now their descendants "own" the land? Sounds like a similar story here in the states.
And how about the Jews that purchased their land from the Ottomans? The same Ottomans that were the "legitimate" owners. Are they rightful owners of their lands?
How can you on the one hand say that the Ottomans were never considered illegitimate rulers of Palestine while on the other hand you refer to the Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire? Clearly the Arab population would not have revolted if they considered their Ottoman masters to be a legitimate authority?
Secondly you haven't mentioned what the Arabs were promised by T.H. Lawrence. They were promised independence and self-determination for their loyalty in the revolt against the Ottomans, and they were betrayed. Britain and France split Arabia between themselves into tiny artificial countries drawn on a map by bureaucrats. That is not what the Arabs signed up for, you can hardly blame them for hating the British occupiers as a result.
Thirdly and most severely, you completely mis-represent the reason why Arabs view Israel as illegitimate. The vast majority of the Jews in Palestine post-war were foreigners fleeing from Europe and the Soviet Union. They migrated en masse against the wishes of the Arab population of Palestine and did so illegally under the British 1939 White Paper on Jewish Immigration. The Jews waged a terrorist war against the British, blowing up hotels, setting off carbombs, and all the other usual assorted extremist apparatus. For the most part the Jews in Palestine were illegal immigrantswho migrated to the area deliberately to steal it from its rightful inhabitants and achieved that by weight of numbers and terrorist tactics against the British. It is not possible for anyone who views this matter objectively to look at the country called Israel and consider it anything other than a moral abomination. It's not irrationality on the part of the Arabs that they, "object the existence of a Jewish state even on an inch of land." I'm a complete atheist devoid of any religious sentiment or historical attachment to Islam whatsoever and I can see clearly that Israel is worthy of objecting to. It's probably too late for it to disappear now, but they aren't offering Palestinians a right of return to their dispossessed homes, they aren't offering compensation and they certainly aren't stopping their illegal expansion into the West Bank and stealing more land which isn't theirs.
Eoin
Well said, and so true. Those so called Jews who fill up Israel today were those who fled the holocaust. Ancestral jews did exist in the area, but there were only hundreds of them and they were well treated by the Arabs.
Contrary to popular belief, the ones who persecuted the Jews more than muslims were christians LOL. When Saladin kicked the crusaders out, the Jews "actually" rejoiced. Try telling this to the people today, they'll tell you you're stoned. That's how much spin doctors have evolved.
Your suggesting we beat them, leave them locked up and secluded, not allowed to go outside without 10 lbs of cotton clothing covering their entire body, complete obediance, no rights, and cut off their appendages whenever they mis-behave?
Yes, of course, how could anyone have missed that that's what I suggested considering that I merely neglected to say it, lol.
Please refrain from pedanticism. If a large group of foreign immigrants descended upon my country (Scotland) and carried out a guerilla war to establish their independence I would hope that you'd have more respect for the rights of Scottish people than to argue that Scotland is not a sovereign nation state represented in the United Nations. It's a matter of the purest irrelevance that Palestine was not represented as a nation state in the League Of Nations, there were people living there who did not consent to the migration and in fact opposed it. Palestine has been the word used to describe the affected region since Roman times. The widespread Jewish immigration there was in breach even of the colonial British authorities, what they did is to some degree understandable given the horrors of the holocaust, but two wrongs don't make a right and Jews had no right to steal somebody elses land because of their own persecution.
What about the Arabs who moved to Palestine in the early twentieth century to look for work? Work that was created when the Jews moved there and created an advanced economy. Would you consider those Arabs to be illegal immigrants? They came from Egypt, Jordan, and other places because of the higher wages, settled, had many kids, and now their descendants "own" the land? Sounds like a similar story here in the states.
And how about the Jews that purchased their land from the Ottomans? The same Ottomans that were the "legitimate" owners. Are they rightful owners of their lands?
Why are you deliberately avoiding the issue? There were a majority of Arabs living in Palestine prior to the widespread and totally illegal Jewish migration, these people whom the country belongs to were not in favour of permitting more Jewish immigration and even by the colonial administrations rules the Jews arrived illegally and fought a terrorist campaign against the British. It might well be the case that many Arabs moved to what became Israel due to economic considerations but that is as irrelevant to this issue as a group of native Americans moving to another US city to make a better life for themselves, it doesn't justify the land that city is built on belonging to and being governed by the colonists.
I don't know how in this supposedly enlightened age, when people look back at the tribulations which affected native peoples and wonder how our ancestors could have been so greedy and cruel to destroy another cultures way of life and livelihood, that there can be anything other than complete disdain for what Zionism has done.
Where Isreal now stands once stood Palestine. The good old UN back in 1953 dissolved Palestine and created the state of Isreal for a place where the Jewish people can live in peace and be safe from persecution.
I would be forever mad too if someone moved into my property and claimed soverenty over it. That would become a generational thing as it is now. It will never end.
The widespread Jewish immigration there was in breach even of the colonial British authorities, what they did is to some degree understandable given the horrors of the holocaust, but two wrongs don't make a right and Jews had no right to steal somebody elses land because of their own persecution.
Take that as given. So a third wrong would make it all even?
So what would you have the current Jewish residents of Israel do then? Up stakes and move somewhere else? If so, where?
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LOL. When Saladin kicked the crusaders out, the Jews "actually" rejoiced. Try telling this to the people today, they'll tell you you're stoned. That's how much spin doctors have evolved.
