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Alas Eoin, the facts of history are of no interest to some.
This much is true! However, I think history shows that over time and regardless of the subject matter, truth gradually becomes more fashionable than falsehood. The zeitgeist at the moment is anti-Muslim, anti-Palestinian and anti-left. I imagine that of Israel's supporters here, 50% of them will read the information in my posts and assume I'm some sort of foaming at the mouth anti-semitic harbinger of doom. I don't worry about them. I know that in 50 years they'll come back to the archive.com copy of this web-site and mourn the intellectual fallacies of their (relative) youth. The other 50% are the ones I'm predominantly interested in, because although they don't accept what I'm saying, the time will come in their lives whether it's 10 months or 10 years hence when they are reminded of this thread by events in their personal life or what happens politically. They'll remember the arguments myself and others have made in this thread and it will drive them into investigating those arguments further.
I don't mean to go idealistically Anne Frank about the fundamental "goodness" of human nature, but whether it's 4 years or 40 the truth will eventually be accepted.
This much is true! However, I think history shows that over time and regardless of the subject matter, truth gradually becomes more fashionable than falsehood. The zeitgeist at the moment is anti-Muslim, anti-Palestinian and anti-left. I imagine that of Israel's supporters here, 50% of them will read the information in my posts and assume I'm some sort of foaming at the mouth anti-semitic harbinger of doom. I don't worry about them. I know that in 50 years they'll come back to the archive.com copy of this web-site and mourn the intellectual fallacies of their (relative) youth. The other 50% are the ones I'm predominantly interested in, because although they don't accept what I'm saying, the time will come in their lives whether it's 10 months or 10 years hence when they are reminded of this thread by events in their personal life or what happens politically. They'll remember the arguments myself and others have made in this thread and it will drive them into investigating those arguments further.
I don't mean to go idealistically Anne Frank about the fundamental "goodness" of human nature, but whether it's 4 years or 40 the truth will eventually be accepted.
This much is true! However, I think history shows that over time and regardless of the subject matter, truth gradually becomes more fashionable than falsehood. The zeitgeist at the moment is anti-Muslim, anti-Palestinian and anti-left. I imagine that of Israel's supporters here, 50% of them will read the information in my posts and assume I'm some sort of foaming at the mouth anti-semitic harbinger of doom. I don't worry about them. I know that in 50 years they'll come back to the archive.com copy of this web-site and mourn the intellectual fallacies of their (relative) youth. The other 50% are the ones I'm predominantly interested in, because although they don't accept what I'm saying, the time will come in their lives whether it's 10 months or 10 years hence when they are reminded of this thread by events in their personal life or what happens politically. They'll remember the arguments myself and others have made in this thread and it will drive them into investigating those arguments further.
I don't mean to go idealistically Anne Frank about the fundamental "goodness" of human nature, but whether it's 4 years or 40 the truth will eventually be accepted.
Wow, I'll give you one thing, you've got some real balls to show your face again in this thread after what you said.
Said what? That you have no clue? Is that a shock to anyone?
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If I happened to be pro-Israeli and I was unfortunate enough to have you 'supporting' my side of the argument, I would be driven to despair.
You're right, since as a pro-arab you're so used to being around liars that a truth-teller would be a shock to your system.
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You made this up on the spot. I said it before and I'll say it again, here is the University of Cambridge Library search: University of Cambridge - Library Search Show me where they have a copy of the Ottoman Census of 1840.
As I said it then, I will repeat for the lazy internet teens like you here: NOT EVERYTHING IN THE LIBRARY IS ONLINE. Sorry sweetie, but you'll have to get up off of your couch and do some REAL research.
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Secondly, explain to me how you came to be able to read Arabic/Turkish (which the original document is written in.) We all know that you are a fraud because the University of Cambridge do not have the Ottoman Census of 1840 in their collection, and I'm as sure as I am of anything that you don't speak Arabic and/or Turkish in order to read it even if they did.
From the person who wants the information handed to them on a sliver platter through Google search, who is too lazy to actually go to Cambridge to see for themselves - they somehow "know" what language it was in, what language the Brits translated it to, where it is or is not held, etc.
For someone who thinks they can supplement their total factual non-existence with internet bravado, you're out of your league.
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I feel a strange sense of sympathy for the pro-Israel posters
Don't bother, since no one cares what you think or feel.
Your entire post is "you are lying." Good luck, with that and a dollar you'll win LOTS of internet debates
You say that the Palestinians left their homes in 1948 mainly because of the requests by neighbouring Arab powers to do so. I'd like if you could explain how you've arrived at this conclusion, I'm sure we both agree that there were many reasons that the Arabs fled, I want to know why you think that the main reason that the Arabs fled was due to requests by neighbouring Arab Governments.
Because every historian, from Benny Morris himself onward, has also confirmed this.
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The reason I'm asking you this question is because I've read at length about the myriad of reasons for the Arabs flight, and I put it to you that little of it had anything to do with diplomatic requests by neighbouring Arab Governments.
Who said "diplomatic" requests, mr. strawman? The requests were made via every social channel available, such as friday mosque sermons.
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Let's do a hypothetical test. Let's say that your country is being over-run by another ethnic-religious group.
More nonsense. Superstar, tell us how many haganah there were, and how many israeli soldiers existed.
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Your home is about to become the frontline of a battlefield involving mortars and street fighting. Would you flee? Yes or no? If your military leaders had recommended that you leave the area, which of the two above facts would be the "main" reason that you would flee?
Hilarious how you claim this idiocy, yet in Syria TODAY many are NOT fleeing their homes, despite being under direct frontal assaults from tanks and weapons FAR beyond what the early IDF had. But keep going, the narrative is exciting, if not truthful...
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You hear that within 50 miles of where you live, another town as been attacked by enemy paramilitary forces. Those paramilitaries have shot and killed over 100 civilians in a deliberate and co-ordinated effort to drive out the population of your ethnic/religious group.
Enough lying idiocies, if you are going to just make up garbage like this, stop posting.
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You say that "nobody has tried to uproot the Palestinians." Chava you are deluding yourself. When the Lehi walked around Deir Yassin shooting and throwing grenades at Arab civilians in their homes and on the streets, that is called ethnic cleansing.
What was the 1929 Hebron massacre, when the arabs openly proclaimed to remove all jews from the city?
And the deir yassin nonsense was a fabrication, admitted by many arabs there.
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You say that the Arabs were given the option to create a state in 1948. (They weren't actually given an option, they were ordered by the UN against their wishes and without their consent, but that's semantics.)
Hilarious Far Left stupidity. They wanted a state, were forced into have a state, but then recanted on having a stated, weren't sure about having a state - are you psychotic?
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The Arab League wanted Palestine (which was still 67% populated by Arabs in 1948) to be a single state, they opposed partition.
Of course, as is the case today - all land under muslim majority has to be controlled by arab muslims. No one else is allowed to have sovereignty - only arab muslims.
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When you say that the Arabs 'rejected' partition, what you fail to mention is that the Zionists also refused the Arabs offer for a peaceful resolution.
Please explain why it was so important, if the arab leadership was going to grant "total autonomy" to the jews in the areas where they were majority, that the land could not be split, and that the whole area had to remain under arab muslim control. good luck with that one...
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They never mention that the Arabs proposed a 1 state solution with equal rights for Jews and legislative autonomy for Jews in predominantly Jewish neighbourhoods.
I.E., under the control of arab muslims. The inability of arab muslims to recognize the rights of others is appalling.
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While it is true that the Arabs rejected the partition plan, they made up 67% of the population of Palestine and were offered less than 40% of the land under the UN partition plan, who in their right mind would accept that?
Wrong, since the partition offered the jews was a tiny sliver of the original mandate promised to israel. Second, the arab muslims would not have given the jews .1% - they had to have ALL of it.
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The real problem was that the Zionist movement would accept nothing less than a Jewish State. The Zionists didn't want to live in an Arab ruled Palestine with some degree of legislative autonomy
Which was shown to be a smart move as evidenced by every minority living in arab muslim-majority nations for the last 75 years, let alone 1,400.
Said what? That you have no clue? Is that a shock to anyone?
You're right, since as a pro-arab you're so used to being around liars that a truth-teller would be a shock to your system.
As I said it then, I will repeat for the lazy internet teens like you here: NOT EVERYTHING IN THE LIBRARY IS ONLINE. Sorry sweetie, but you'll have to get up off of your couch and do some REAL research.
From the person who wants the information handed to them on a sliver platter through Google search, who is too lazy to actually go to Cambridge to see for themselves - they somehow "know" what language it was in, what language the Brits translated it to, where it is or is not held, etc.
For someone who thinks they can supplement their total factual non-existence with internet bravado, you're out of your league.
Don't bother, since no one cares what you think or feel.
Your entire post is "you are lying." Good luck, with that and a dollar you'll win LOTS of internet debates
LOL wrong answer. Enjoy the next 50 years!
P.S. I know it's the 90's but as a male I'd really prefer that you don't call me 'sweetie'.
(Edit: Just saw your next addition. I'm not going to dignify it with a response in light of you being a proven charlatan.)
What do you base your statement "Jews should live in Israel" on? Who says they should live there? And why? What will they gain by it?
The UN made a big mistake by conceding that land to the Zionists. And they learned that the hard way when the Zionists kicked them out.
The rest is, as they say, history. A history of oppression, bloodshed, theft and lies.
Peace,
brian
Jews should live in Israel is one based in Judaism itself.
Again the the Palestinian Arabs were NOT kicked out. They left because of false promises made to them by the Arab neighboring countries. The Palestinian Arabs that stayed in 1948 are now Israeli citizens and enjoy a higher standard of living than the Arabs in the neighboring countries.
What was the 1929 Hebron massacre, when the arabs openly proclaimed to remove all jews from the city?
Of course, as is the case today - all land under muslim majority has to be controlled by arab muslims. No one else is allowed to have sovereignty - only arab muslims.
Please explain why it was so important, if the arab leadership was going to grant "total autonomy" to the jews in the areas where they were majority, that the land could not be split, and that the whole area had to remain under arab muslim control. good luck with that one...
I.E., under the control of arab muslims. The inability of arab muslims to recognize the rights of others is appalling.
To add to the above, it is interesting also to note that after Israel's establishment most of the Jews living in the Arab Muslim countries were forced to flee
LOL wrong answer. Enjoy the next 50 years! P.S. I know it's the 90's but as a male I'd really prefer that you don't call me 'sweetie'. (Edit: Just saw your next addition. I'm not going to dignify it with a response in light of you being a proven charlatan.)
LOL another white flag captured from the muslims fascists, like paper mache their defense crumbles as soon as they encounter resistance against their racist hatred...
Jews should live in Israel is one based in Judaism itself. Again the the Palestinian Arabs were NOT kicked out. They left because of false promises made to them by the Arab neighboring countries. The Palestinian Arabs that stayed in 1948 are now Israeli citizens and enjoy a higher standard of living than the Arabs in the neighboring countries.
It is hilarious the muslim fascists claim that the handful of irgun and jewish fighters managed to expel like 800,000 arabs. Wow, I'd bet today's modern IDF wishes it had such incredible powers, we could call them the X-men or similar.
Assad can't clear out a few hundred demonstrators with snipers using .50 cals and tank shells, but those massively powerful jews - they could clear out millions with just a bad attitude!! Hilarious.
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