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Old 02-15-2011, 07:11 PM
 
31,381 posts, read 36,481,968 times
Reputation: 15018

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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
How about speaking English? How about being taught in English.
How do you teach non-english speaking children in english? The purpose of multi-lingual education is keep non-english speaking children from falling behind in non-language areas until they have acquired english proficiency. Now back in the good old days when it wasn't usual for immigrant children to just drop out of school and get a job in some sweat shop or coal mine until they learned enough english to attend school. We consider ourselves a bit more enlightened these days.

Quote:
Funny how the millions of Italians, Swedes, Polish and Asians managed to assimilate just fine. I'm 4th generation American who's family passed through Ellis Island from Italy. Funny how we all abandoned Italian to speak English. We even changed our last names to sound American.
Actually, it is pretty funny, actually risible would be a better word, especially considering the your 1st generation ancestors arrived in the U.S. somewhere between the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th, who arrived in the U.S. unable to read Italian much less English. 40 percent had no intention of staying in the U.S. coming here to earn money and then return to Italy. Considering that the vast majority of Italian immigrants arrived in the U.S. with no skills what so ever, they took jobs as manual laborers where the requirements for being english proficient were minimum to say the least. Another seemingly forgotten family tale, is that Italian immigrants gravitated to those neighborhoods where they could create a cultural community amicable to Italian immigrants, where they established Italian centric business and shops. Sound like any other immigrant group?

The fact that subsequent generations of your family attained levels english proficiency which allows you to wipe out not on your own heritage but to revise its history isn't, again, any different than any other 2nd, 3rd and certainly 4th generation immigrant family.

You know i'm always struck by the arrogance of Italian and Irish Americans who suffer from selective memory regarding their descendants. By the way, ever heard of Fiorello Henry LaGuardia, I believe he was a progressive.

Last edited by ovcatto; 02-15-2011 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:42 PM
 
31,381 posts, read 36,481,968 times
Reputation: 15018
PS - Steve,

Perhaps I should remind you that the very same xenophobic arguments that you are making now are the same xenophobic arguments that were used with regard to your Italian Americans descendants at the turn of the 20th Century, the inability to "assimilate", the organized crime, the sticking together in their little Italy ghettos, the adherence to socialist and anarchist politics which were "incompatible" with "American values"(see Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti) and religious beliefs that paid more allegiance to the Pope than to the United States. If I were your descendants I would have changed my name in order to pass as a WASP as well.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:14 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,162,766 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
PS - Steve,

Perhaps I should remind you that the very same xenophobic arguments that you are making now are the same xenophobic arguments that were used with regard to your Italian Americans descendants at the turn of the 20th Century, the inability to "assimilate", the organized crime, the sticking together in their little Italy ghettos, the adherence to socialist and anarchist politics which were "incompatible" with "American values"(see Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti) and religious beliefs that paid more allegiance to the Pope than to the United States. If I were your descendants I would have changed my name in order to pass as a WASP as well.
It would seem for many European Americans that have obtained some measure of assimilation into American society as also taken on the cultural value of discrimination, prejudice and racism toward non-White Americans. Is that the price for being "Accepted" into the American cultural mainstream?
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:22 PM
 
2,385 posts, read 4,279,739 times
Reputation: 2404
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Since integration is an on-going process, and can never be 100% achieved, you are logically unable to conclude that it has been a failure. As long as people keep immigrating, there will always be more integration that has to be done.
I didn't say it was categorically a failure, I said it was a failure THUS FAR.

And sure, integration could be 100% achieved.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,657 posts, read 38,136,745 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by randy8876 View Post
They pay less because they are baby factories and choose to drop out of school and do things that result in failure (aka live like they're in Mexico or Africa). Many kids+low income= no taxes or EITC.

In 2050 blacks and Hispanics will make up 50% of the population. And half won't pay income tax, and a lot of those will get back more than they pay in.

Everyone should look forward to a country that is a blend of Mexico and Africa.
Calm down, killa. Stereotype much? Is this what you teach all your enlightened fellow travelers at your Klan meetings?

Quote:
I hope like hell whites and Asians leave in record numbers so the USA dives out of control even faster. Hopefully Europe and Australia will learn from our failure.
I hope you're the one leading the charge.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:31 PM
 
371 posts, read 385,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Calm down, killa. Stereotype much? Is this what you teach all your enlightened fellow travelers at your Klan meetings?
What is a stereotype?
50% of blacks and hispanics don't pay federal income tax. That is a fact.
Blacks and hispanics have the highest fertility rates of any race in America. Also a fact.
Current demographic trends show America being about 50% black and hispanic by 2050.

Since America has tended to resemble a nation forged from the roots of it's immigrants (a melting pot) why shouldn't we expect it to pick up more African and Mexican traits as these groups surge?

I'd be a terrible klansman, since I have problems with failing cultures and ignorant people. I have no issues with East Asians and Western Europeans. Even India is working on getting their act together.

But I sure as hell have no desire to see Africa and Mexico rebuilt on US soil.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I hope you're the one leading the charge.
I'm gone in 5 years. And hopefully in 15 years I can give up my US citizenship so I won't have to pay taxes any longer (I've paid in since I was 16, which is more than I can say for majority of black people).
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,657 posts, read 38,136,745 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by randy8876 View Post
What is a stereotype?
50% of blacks and hispanics don't pay federal income tax. That is a fact.
Blacks and hispanics have the highest fertility rates of any race in America. Also a fact.
Current demographic trends show America being about 50% black and hispanic by 2050.

Since America has tended to resemble a nation forged from the roots of it's immigrants (a melting pot) why shouldn't we expect it to pick up more African and Mexican traits as these groups surge?

I'd be a terrible klansman, since I have problems with failing cultures and ignorant people. I have no issues with East Asians and Western Europeans. Even India is working on getting their act together.

But I sure as hell have no desire to see Africa and Mexico rebuilt on US soil.



I'm gone in 5 years. And hopefully in 15 years I can give up my US citizenship so I won't have to pay taxes any longer (I've paid in since I was 16, which is more than I can say for majority of black people).
You continue to prove my point. Why don't you leave now? What's stopping you? Where you gonna go? Antarctica? That's really white. Just snow and penguins.
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:57 AM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,162,766 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucario View Post
you continue to prove my point. Why don't you leave now? What's stopping you? Where you gonna go? Antarctica? That's really white. Just snow and penguins.
It sounds like the perfect place for him!
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:17 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,854 posts, read 4,759,980 times
Reputation: 960
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonythetuna View Post
Most of the illegals are not "Americanizing" at all. You don't live in the U.S.A. do you?
Are you sure? Every 1st generation holds on to their ideas and customs, but they have to change/adapt/assimilate to survive and succeed.

"Americanization" happens with each subsequent generation.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,477 posts, read 58,806,455 times
Reputation: 24852
Hell, I was born here of Germanic ancestry and, judging by the standards of many on this board, should go back to Germany because I an not a God Fearing, right wing, white racist that believes America is without fault in any way shape of form. I am not about to leave or shut up.
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