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Old 02-12-2011, 05:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Look at the big picture...The whole human race is a failure.
How so?
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
They are not, however, the cause of it. The cause is, as ever, religion and the intolerance that goes with it.
I seriously disagree that it's the fault of religion. The wars we are fighting today, and in the past 50 years, are due to competing political doctrine just as much as they've been about religion.

If religion ever goes away, we will be fighting over political doctrine instead of religion.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I seriously disagree that it's the fault of religion. The wars we are fighting today, and in the past 50 years, are due to competing political doctrine just as much as they've been about religion.

If religion ever goes away, we will be fighting over political doctrine instead of religion.
The last 50 years are but an eye-blink of history. You have to look beyond that.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:34 PM
 
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My point is that groups are going to fight with other groups so long as essentials to live remain finite.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Violett View Post
My point is that groups are going to fight with other groups so long as essentials to live remain finite.
And, in Europe and for centuries, religion has been at the heart of the differences between groups.

The religious wars of the 16th and 17th century, the persecution of the jews, the Balkan wars, the breakup of Yugoslavia. And some of it is still going on today.
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:37 PM
 
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I disagree. Differences between groups are the root cause of differences between groups. Religion is just the excuse people use to try and control others who are different from them.
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
And, in Europe and for centuries, religion has been at the heart of the differences between groups.

The religious wars of the 16th and 17th century, the persecution of the jews, the Balkan wars, the breakup of Yugoslavia. And some of it is still going on today.
Yes, true. But tribalism (religion is fundamentally a form of that) is hard wired into the genetic code of human beings. It's that hard wiring that is at the heart of wars and not religion per se.
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:49 PM
 
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Yep.

Quote:
Tribalism and ethnocentrism help to keep individuals committed to the group, even when personal relations may fray. This keeps individuals from wandering off or joining other groups.

The tendency of members to unite against an outside tribe and the ability to act violently and prejudicially against that outside tribe likely boosted the chances of survival in genocidal conflicts.
Tribalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So, even if people stopped believing in organized religion, groups of people would still fight each other.
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Violett View Post
Yep.



Tribalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So, even if people stopped believing in organized religion, groups of people would still fight each other.
Sure. Organized religion had less than nothing to do with the wars that the various Native American tribes fought with each other in pre-white man days, as an example.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:00 PM
 
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Failure. Immigration was a success when theis country was a true melting pot and people who immigrated wanted to become Americans. This seems to be no longer the case en large.

Multiculturalism is a nation killer. A clear agreement of borders, language & culture must be respected for a nation to survive.
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