Iran is Burning.... (leader, elections, elect, government)
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TnHT –I believethe apparent "fear and weakness" evident in this American culture is the result of decades of propaganda designed to keep our military involvement; including building the huge airbases that are the equivalents of the old Crusader Castles, in Muslim lands. The point of keeping Americans fearful is to keep them from thinking that they are being exploited by their fellow citizens and corporations. The reason for our attempt to maintain word wide control of potential petroleum producing lands is not to protect our access to the petroleum but to protect the international petroleum cartel’s control over the price of petroleum. In effect the United States is guaranteeing with our soldier’s lives and our treasure our international enemies profits.
This can be reversed if we stopped lying to our people about our perceived “weakness” against the terrorists of the world. It can also be reversed if we just stopped buying oil from our enemies by using less and producing what we really need from our own sources. The result would, for a while, be a less lavish lifestyle but we are a resilient people and would soon be living very well without our immeasurably costly addiction to petroleum. This would undoubtedly financially harm some of pour most wealthy families but they would still remain far wealthier than the rest of us so their losses are an acceptable price for removing us from the control of our petroleum “candy man”.
What would we do in Iran to begin with? Send in troops and declare war to defy the government there? Just what would ANY OF YOU do?
Stand by and hope for the best. Even if only reforms are garnished, it is still one step closer, as most of the younger people in Iran seem to favor a more secular form of government. Whatever happens, we should wait to see what is left after the dust settles and deal with what is there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD
Well I would tend to agree that people are more interested in their families and getting bread on the table. I see weakness in the acceptance of so called choice e.g. we are going to innapropriately frisk you when boarding a plane if you elect not to be scanned....are Egyptians and the Army there more free? I don't think so after all they have the muslim religion dominating their thoughts ?
Many brave people in this country where I travel. And finally I would disagree with you on Iran not having the means. I think we make a mistake in underestimating them.
I agree with you on the whole civil liberties thing and I think Americans are taking too much on the chin.
However as to what is taking place in Iran, that is their damn business and until they settle matters as to where they want to go, then we should just stay out of it and keep our fingers crossed.
Lets say the US publicly and openly supports a more secular government during protests and the protesters are crushed and a more strict form of Islamic council emerges. They can then say to the Muslim world, "The US is once again trying to control our destiny and meddle in our right to free determination". This would only serve to bolster anti-American and anti-western sentiments.
I agree with you TN. People worldwide want freedom as they conceive it to be....it is the next unstoppable force in the world. Clinton was right about the internet. An exciting time to be sure.
On the other score when America turns it's attention inward there will be plenty of work to do.
TnHT –I believethe apparent "fear and weakness" evident in this American culture is the result of decades of propaganda designed to keep our military involvement; including building the huge airbases that are the equivalents of the old Crusader Castles, in Muslim lands. The point of keeping Americans fearful is to keep them from thinking that they are being exploited by their fellow citizens and corporations. The reason for our attempt to maintain word wide control of potential petroleum producing lands is not to protect our access to the petroleum but to protect the international petroleum cartel’s control over the price of petroleum. In effect the United States is guaranteeing with our soldier’s lives and our treasure our international enemies profits.
This can be reversed if we stopped lying to our people about our perceived “weakness†against the terrorists of the world. It can also be reversed if we just stopped buying oil from our enemies by using less and producing what we really need from our own sources. The result would, for a while, be a less lavish lifestyle but we are a resilient people and would soon be living very well without our immeasurably costly addiction to petroleum. This would undoubtedly financially harm some of pour most wealthy families but they would still remain far wealthier than the rest of us so their losses are an acceptable price for removing us from the control of our petroleum “candy manâ€.
What gets me Greg, is that the right argues from this position that these things are needed for our security and safety, yet a culture of fear breeds obedience through control. A fearful people turn to whomever is going to protect them and provide for their safety, in this case, the government. So while arguing over every domestic issue about how the government controls their life, big government this and that, they have no problems with big government protecting them from bad guys half the world away who aren't even a real credible threat to Americans in America. Everything is predicated upon a series of "what if this, and what if that, and they could this if they do that" but the reality on the ground is Iran is falling apart and has been on the verge for several years and there isn't a single Muslim nation capable of harming us. Terrorist maybe, but terrorist aren't Muslim states and no matter what they say, they simply do not have the ability to do anything more than talk and spew nonsense. I'm not afraid of tough words from bullies and bone heads.
As to those on the left, well where in the hell are they concerning US foreign policy of the Obama administration and its promulgation of all this fear based nonsense?
I agree with you TN. People worldwide want freedom as they conceive it to be....it is the next unstoppable force in the world. Clinton was right about the internet. An exciting time to be sure.
On the other score when America turns it's attention inward there will be plenty of work to do.
Absolutely! I hope Americans take note of what is taking place in the Middle East and start protesting governments desire to micro manage so many aspects of our lives. The more we do for ourselves, the less we need the government to do for us, which means we must put in the effort. Government certainly has its place and is necessary for many things, but like anything it can be taken way too far.
Did I say that we ought to meddle in their affairs?
Didn't think so!
We have very little we could physically do anyhow.
I said that Obama should SUPPORT the protester's cries for Democracy unlike what he did before.
So what happens if we make empty threats that we're not willing to back up with force? What if the protesters lose and now we have a crazy man in Iran who wants to go after us when the dust settles. That's the problem. No one with any sense thinks we should walk into Iran with bombs--the entire middle east would blow up. Just what would we accomplish by making threats to begin with? Do we want to throw gasoline on that fire? Sometimes you just have to watch and wait for opportunities. We had an opportunity for diplomatic action in Egypt and we grabbed it.
The Nazis always offered a rational choice e.g. do you want to live in the ghetto without food or wear the yellow star? do you want to get into the train and be safe or stay in the ghetto and be unsafe.....chilling in it's effectiveness.
Fascism is unrelated to politics. it has a goal of it's own regardless of politics.
the fact that America is under it's thumb now is not suprising.
So what happens if we make empty threats that we're not willing to back up with force? What if the protesters lose and now we have a crazy man in Iran who wants to go after us when the dust settles. That's the problem. No one with any sense thinks we should walk into Iran with bombs--the entire middle east would blow up. Just what would we accomplish by making threats to begin with? Do we want to throw gasoline on that fire? Sometimes you just have to watch and wait for opportunities. We had an opportunity for diplomatic action in Egypt and we grabbed it.
Holy cow dude, who talked about military action with bombs? Relax and get that script filled.
Holy cow dude, who talked about military action with bombs? Relax and get that script filled.
I'm a dudette
Here's my point--if you put yourself in the middle of another countries affairs, you'd better be able to deliver on what you preach. If we publicly denounced their elections, what would that accomplish if we aren't willing to intervene? Intervention would have been insane. I think lots of you saber rattlers don't get that.
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