Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The first half of the ten years had an INCREASE of $98 billion. Thus, a net increase of $28 billion in wealth. Not to mention the INCREASE in those making more than 500k a year.
Let's not forget that there were also demographics in play. Those that left were OLDER. New Jersey is not a retirement haven. Ever heard of the cliche of moving to Florida when I retire?
For a state that is "losing" so much, it's odd that it has the second highest median income. Not to mention amongst the highest percentage of millionaires (a percentage that GREW prior to the recession). Huh.
You are not getting it. There is a level of taxation that will cause wealth to leave a state. Do you think wealthy people will stay in a state at any level of taxation? The fact that we are even having this debate shows we are at or close to that level in NJ. It is time for society as a whole to stop counting on one segment of society to carry them. The well has run dry. time to live within our means.
Cuts are one thing, ending collective bargaining is another. Shouldn't we focus on providing more incentives to become a teacher to attract more talent.
Wow, just look at the horrible, drastic changes the governor want to make;
Quote:
In addition to eliminating collective-bargaining rights, the legislation also would make public workers pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care coverage - increases Walker calls "modest" compared with those in the private sector.
Wow! Half the cost! What a horrible sacrifice to make!
The bold will turn out to be false, right here;
Quote:
Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.
How fair is it that to work in the teaching profession, dues are taken from ones paycheck and then forwarded to the democrat party for political purposes.
Quote:
Cuts are one thing, ending collective bargaining is another.
Wouldn't end, but some HEALTHY changes would be made. How right is it for a conservative teacher's union dues going to the democrat party?
You are not getting it. There is a level of taxation that will cause wealth to leave a state. Do you think wealthy people will stay in a state at any level of taxation? The fact that we are even having this debate shows we are at or close to that level in NJ. It is time for society as a whole to stop counting on one segment of society to carry them. The well has run dry. time to live within our means.
It didn't happen though. In fact, they stayed in NJ. I didn't get it wrong. Actually YOU got it wrong.
Nobody is advocating raising taxes to an obscene rate. However, as wealth is shifting further and further into the hands of the wealthy, they can afford to pay more. Yet, we cut their taxes. The well hasn't run dry...we cut taxes for the rich. That's part of the reason why we have the largest wealth gap since the Great Depression.
I think we should ensure that teachers have good benefits and salaries in order to help provide incentives that attract people to want to become teachers.
I used to work in insurance, trust me it's not that easy. It was MY job to make it hard to read and understand the lingo. I had LAWYERS ask me to interpret the legalese in the documents.
This our national education, not a corporation. If coca-cola reports lowered earning our future is still relatively more secure. If people don't want to become teachers and thus Johnny can't read, our nation is much less secure.
Yes it is, I have worked at multiple fortune 500 companies within healthcare, ...a problem is we have to many politicians and policy wonk want a bees who aren't qualified to lead or make decisions...they also do what you suggested, make it hard to read....they pander to their constitutents and the masses swallow hook line and sinker...
If you're truly sorry for causing my ailment I suggest you stop lying. I doubt you're daughter and sister are teachers. Esp. with your vitriolic attitude towards those that work in poorer districts. That would help, again if you're truly sorry. Somehow I don't think you are. I think that you don't understand and thus feel compelled to try to simplify the problem as "greedy teachers". So I guess I found another well to cure me, since you are the cause of my sickness. Educate yourself on education. If really you do have a daughter who is a teacher along with your sister, ask them and their coworkers what it is like to work in an overcrowded inner city school...ask them if they know anyone who does. Get all perspectives, not just the hushed suburban perspective that encompasses the majority of your posts.
Yo dude,who you talkin to. My younger sister is 52 and travels from LI to inner city NY to teach 5 days a week.No freakin union they wont touch that stuff. they aint tough enough! she has been in the news,testified before congress and is a real life charactor in a bestselling book. My daughter is a teacher in WY no union and doing quite well.PS Thanks for calling me a liar. shows you will say anything to prove you are fake and cant prove a point with facts have a nice fake life
It didn't happen though. In fact, they stayed in NJ. I didn't get it wrong. Actually YOU got it wrong.
Nobody is advocating raising taxes to an obscene rate. However, as wealth is shifting further and further into the hands of the wealthy, they can afford to pay more. Yet, we cut their taxes. The well hasn't run dry...we cut taxes for the rich. That's part of the reason why we have the largest wealth gap since the Great Depression.
I think we should ensure that teachers have good benefits and salaries in order to help provide incentives that attract people to want to become teachers.
Of course wealth has left. I got it right you choose not to believe it. that is ok, some will never be convinced by facts.
It's nice you think they can afford to pay more, they may disagree with you and vote with their feet, like in NJ.
Do you think teacher have bad salaries and benefits? Teachers are faring better than the folks who are paying their salaries, they have better benefits and are not subject to meeting quality standards. Lousey teachers and good teachers are thrown treated the same, nice racket.
If you really want to attract good teachers allow competition. You think the unions will ever allow that? They have no interest in doing what is in the best interest of the community or the kids. They have one focus, money.
Well, the governor is asking they contribute, to their own pensions a pittance, 5.8% - what was it before?
The governor is asking they pay a little more for their health care, to 12.5% - what was it before.
Even at those levels - what a friggin deal! Who knew it could be so lucrative to work for the government?
From the Governor's on summary of the bill.
Governor Walker Introduces Budget Repair (http://www.wisgov.state.wi.us/journal_media_detail.asp?prid=5622&locid=177 - broken link)
Local employers participating in the Public Employers Group Health insurance would be prohibited from paying more than 88 percent of the lowest cost plan.
So if a local district decides to pay 90% of the premium they will be prevented from doing so by the state law that in essence says that is too generous.
It is not clear to me how the state saves any money by requiring this condition.
So, basically, the greedy teachers' unions are calling in sick so they can protest at a political rally, leaving the kids twisting in the wind. Some Milwaukee schools are closed today, and for the second day in a row, some schools are closed in Madison. I also heard that one of the universities is having a staff walkout later today...if I was a student there, I would be PO-ed due to having to pay tuition just to have the teacher not show up to make a point.
When did teachers become so greedy that they put their pay and benefits ahead of teaching students? This is a great argument for why 1) public sector employees should not be allowed to form unions and collectively bargain, 2) public schools cannot possibly provide the best education, at least if unions are as controlling as they are here, 3) unions should not be allowed for the "caring professions" like teachers and healthcare workers b/c it's a conflict of interest. It used to be that you take a public sector job or job in a "caring field" BECAUSE YOU CARE about what you're doing (teaching kids, stopping child abuse, helping the elderly, caring for sick people, etc.), not b/c you can make good money at it.
I would have put this in the WI subforum but this is making national news (it was on Fox this morning) and besides, it's an issue that could affect more than just WI if other states/unions follow suit.
Spoken like a person who has obviously never stepped foot into a classroom as a teacher.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
