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That's correct, the more taxes, the more socialistic we become. Taxes themselves are not socialistic, but they are the subsidies for socialism. Some taxes are necessary to fund functions that are can only be accomplished by a federal organization for the benefit of all of it's citizens, i.e. national defense. Taxes that are used to "level the playing field", so to speak, by taking from those who have the means to give to those who have the need, are simply means of social engineering designed to increase the power of government and politicians.
Incremental change is a diabolical means to an ultimate goal, allowing those affected to become accustomed to a small change before moving to the next step, which then doesn't seem so dramatic. FDR started us on this slope, and now is time to deal with stopping it.
OIC. The federal government is much less bloated, much more efficient, and much better decision makers. Spoken like a good statist. Do you not think that the doctors will need to pander to the wishes of the federal government in a single-payer system. The name makes one realize that with a single source of income, doctors will be working at the will of the federal government, with bureaucrats making the decisions. At least now doctors have the option of not accepting a particular HMO or insurance company.
Did you even read the article? It shows how health care costs rose subsequent to 1960. Do you have anything to prove otherwise? The liberal war cry of "deny, deny, deny" even in the face of facts doesn't work here.
Ah, like your article then, you ignore the ascendancy of HMOs at the same time (and their ridiculous "overhead" and CEO compensation representing some ridiculous percentage!!) But heavens no, THAT couldn't be a reason!
And YET, the "socialized" medicine countries have LOWER healthcare costs than the United States!
Sorry, but your "article" would be more convicing if we lived in a bubble and couldn't, ya know, see that we have the MOST EXPENSIVE and LEAST government-intrusive healthcare system in the industrialized world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9
Again, the real problem is the COST of healthcare, not who provides it. Correct? Let's address the real problem and not who provides it. If you mean to suggest that healthcare will become better under government control, how so? You are suggesting that good "primary care" is not there, but how under your model will it improve?
Yes, which is why I stated I prefer "single-payer" healthcare, and NOT "government run" healthcare. It's the difference between government owning hospitals and employing doctors, and government providing health insurance from which private doctors and hospitals draw (LIKE MEDICARE!)
Under single payer, "primary care" will improve because people WILL see the doctor when they are sick. Unlike the 45 million who DON'T go to the doctor when symptoms start because they don't have insurance and don't think they can afford it, so their conditions get worse. Cancer enters later stages, diseases aren't caught in time. They go to the doctor when it's too late and/or treatment is a LOT more involved and difficult.
THAT'S how "healthcare costs" can be lowered. Oh, and the government can become a player in the market, using its purchasing power to negotiate lower and bulk drug costs the way they do in Canada. Our "glorious conservative leaders" in Congress, however, explicitly FORBID such bargaining in the latest medicare prescription coverage bill, which just goes to show you how much of our money is ALREADY being siphoned into private corporations with NO NET BENEFIT TO THE TAXPAYER!
What I find the most troubling is how willingly people seem to give up these days, it's the easy way out to say "The government can't handle that, just can't be done".
During the '60s, when for reasons good, bad, or indifferent we felt a critical need to beat the Russians to the moon did anyone sit back and say "Gee, we don't can't do that, we don't know how, maybe we'll just fly to Sheybogan instead"? No, we found a way to do it.
If we no longer believe we can find a way to do just about anything it may be time we start over.
How willingly? I mean the proof is in the pudding. I think it is fairly common knowledge that the beaureaucratic machine that is the government creates red tape and huge costs. You will sit back and ***** about FEMA, the military, the spending, and the list goes on and on. But when it comes to health care, hey, let's hand our lives over to the government! I brought it up previously, I heard this one the other day that in England if you are a smoker, the government will deny you surgery until you can prove that you quit smoking. I would love to see if this is actually true or just a proposal but that is not taking care of the people.
Let's see if we can name one thing the government does better than the private sector.
So, you view the government attempting to ensure the safety and well being of the population as an intrusion?
The operative word there is "attempt". Any "attempt" by the federal government usually leads to corruption and a false sense of safety. I tend to put my faith more in the individual than the government.
How willingly? I mean the proof is in the pudding. I think it is fairly common knowledge that the beaureaucratic machine that is the government creates red tape and huge costs. You will sit back and ***** about FEMA, the military, the spending, and the list goes on and on. But when it comes to health care, hey, let's hand our lives over to the government! I brought it up previously, I heard this one the other day that in England if you are a smoker, the government will deny you surgery until you can prove that you quit smoking. I would love to see if this is actually true or just a proposal but that is not taking care of the people.
Let's see if we can name one thing the government does better than the private sector.
National defense, so far. As we have seen, when the government takes control of a part of our lives, it uses that part to exercise control over other parts.
People who oppose federal help are probably afraid of communism
They must have loved Joe McCarthy- now THATS is what we should fear most. Cheney has similar narrow views- Cheney/McCarthyism- creating a new horrible world in America filled with illegals and destroying Americans financial security.
This isn't federal help that we oppose, it is federal provision. When the people start expecting the government to provide and do for them, then the government has the power. I persoanlly don't want the government in my life like that. That is what we should fear, government intrusion to the point where you no longer have your life. Nice try with the return to McCarthyism though.
National defense, so far. As we have seen, when the government takes control of a part of our lives, it uses that part to exercise control over other parts.
Well there really isn't a private national defense program, there is a private self defense program although many liberals would wish to take that away from you.
Well there really isn't a private national defense program, there is a private self defense program although many liberals would wish to take that away from you.
That's why I stated "so far". Though, there might be a market for one, one a bit more effective, efficient, and more insulated from political pressure.
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