Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-27-2011, 05:49 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,782,788 times
Reputation: 2772

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonythetuna View Post
I don't agree.

Can you outline your statement?
Every single soldier present tense and throughout our history as a nation has subordinated themselves, sacrificed all comforts, all personal choices, in service to a higher calling that is the defense of an abstract ideology we call liberty. They do not decide what they wear, what they eat, what the mission statement is, what rules of UCMJ they follow, what orders they 'feel' like following or not, what their profession (needs of service dictate) etc etc. Every ounce of energy directed to the mission, not in self service.

You do not appear to have attended bootcamp but for those who did not it's something of a voluntary abandonment of personal identity, a tabling of it, for the sake of a greater good. This is consistent with altruism taught in Judeo-Christian ethics. It's very difficult to describe to civilians what a sailor/ soldiers life becomes. They put aside their liberty for all of us so that the rest of us can experience liberty peacefully. Not unlike cops walking the beat living up to higher standards of self discipline. I understand these things intimately because I come from a family of nurses, cops, and firemen. I'm also a veteran myself. Some experiences in life are just too difficult to express in words fully. You have to be in it to know. Holding up liberty is a full time job not just in the military but among every citizen if only they'd see that responsibility fully.

Every right we have is actually a responsibility to uphold as individuals, as a community, and as a nation. When we do, we are strong. Turn your back on another's loss of liberty, your own is threatened. This is the wisdom of a jury, another vote given to the masses countermanding wrongful legislation from the bench. United we stand. Pay attention and be fair to a fault or predators win our civilization. Wrongful persecutions, blaming the victim, competing brands of injustice... not the intention of our founders, is it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-27-2011, 07:01 PM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,676,657 times
Reputation: 17362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 View Post
This is a nice post. What's your opinion of the european leaders of france, german, and britain all coming out this last year telling us multiculturalism is a failed concept?
I guess I'm old school enough to realize the transient nature of mans ability to accept change, I really don't like the term multiculturalism for the fact that it is a catch phrase for those who would denigrate anybody they fear because they are of a different skin color or ethnic origin and not of the majority populace. Most people are aware of the inevitable coming together of the human population on this planet and most Americans have their roots in other countries so we are for the most part travelers from distant shores.

As for the so called "leaders" of those European nations who have deemed their concept of multiculturalism being a failure I'd have to say that the obvious lack of statesmanship on their part is truly in keeping with the new cruder ruder style of those in leadership positions today. I don't think many people regardless of nationality really think their "leaders" are in touch with the average citizen, it's true here in the US and I'm sure politics is seen for it's bread and circus value around the globe. A mix of cultures is inevitable, not just in the US but world wide. I don't lose any sleep over it.

The world is made up of all the vast societal/ethnic differences that have existed for thousands of years, the fact that we are now living in a much smaller world means we'll have to acknowledge the reality of those differences on a daily basis. Nations are beginning to have huge population shifts, like most social change these changes are evolutionary not revolutionary, resistance to change will be our ultimate undoing and not the arrival of new faces in our country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2011, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,395 posts, read 22,525,635 times
Reputation: 11134
Until Americans learn to think for themselves and stop believing all the agenda fueled rhetoric...I'm afraid we may never respect each "side" enough to work together to solve our problems. Like America...love it or leave it mentality....we must admit our shortcomings and try to overcome our suspicions of each other before we can move forward.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2011, 07:15 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,317 posts, read 22,385,663 times
Reputation: 18436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
Of course, I mean the United States of America.

Right and Left are demonized and what passes for our leaders appear to either have no clue what to do or driven by their ideology.

No one truly wants to see starving people in the streets (one extreme) and no one wants to see a socialist state (other extreme). No one wants to destroy the middle class. But it seems policies are doing the above depending on who is in office although the middle class gets knocked about no matter what.

Does anyone truly want to sacrifice a bit of their current lifestyle to save the country? (I literally mean save, not trying to be dramatic)

Time for a new party? Possible? Other options?

Are the problems so deep that it is impossible to fix without causing hardship to major elements across income levels?

Are there any historical parallels?
Objectively, all one needs to do is look at George Bush's 8 years to show what Republicans stand for. Just an absolutely atrocious ideology they represent, one that time and time again is detrimental to the progression and efficient, effective running of this country on every single level.

No question that Republicans have disqualified themselves as a major party, and looking back, one wonders how in the hell they lasted this long. As long as they are present, progress will be greatly hampered. This is clear.

History and modern times scream for a more enlightened party to replace the very pathetic Republican party, as well as its Tea Party branch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2011, 07:22 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,856,573 times
Reputation: 18304
I thnik that when the democrats came to power in both houses and presdientcy they assumed too mcuh really.Bascially the attitude was summed up by Obama's;elctions have consequences.They then proceeed to pass nayhtig they wanted fast without deabte or even ging time to read.Thye allowed no amendments to be heard anf thsoe they did they put down. Tehy the proceeded to make fun of Tea Party members as teabaggers and outright called them dnagrous militiants. Obama's secutirty chief even labeled vetrans as potential terrorist suspects to be watched. But now they have loss that power and the tea party has to be dealt with no terms. Now even Obama's polciy failures mean he has to appeal to what he named the evil empire f business and wall street. Really his poroblem is he lacks trust now.He has the same problem detroit has had since the mid 70's to gain back truat of its former customers and that is perhaps the hardest task of all i humn realtion ships.Come together with someone you have losss trust in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2011, 07:38 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,782,788 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
No one except the rich and the Republicans.

The question is....WHY??

Where is the logic in wiping out the little guy and bringing this country to bankruptcy and ruin?? I could understand if the Repubs were secret agents for the Russians or Chinese but they're not. They live among us and will be hurt nearly as badly as we are in the event of a crash-landing. I ponder this every night.

Why are they intent on destroying America?
Ayn Rand lured them to abandon the higher calling. She was an atheist who worshiped buildings. She solidly put their intellectual heads up their behinds for decades. Trojan horse calling itself anti-communist. Democracy was safe when the checks and balances were in place. Over time they've been systematically breached by predators. They know our habits and if they start a fire in California, NY can be looted. Complex strategies have been applied upon us in plain sight. Keep people busy defending all the wrong things works like a champ.

Quote:
we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor
So repubs and libertarians, is this the 'communism' you rail at??? Nice guys finish last? Dog eat dog rat eat rat is what they were about? What WE all came here for? I think not.

All too many men in America believe women haven't taken that very same oath from the very beginning. Before we ever got on the boat. Where American law 'gave her permission' or the merest acknowledgment. They are sadly mistaken. American women took that oath with you through thick and thin whether married directly to you or not. Respect, gentlemen. Respect. If there's something I don't know I've been an eager student my whole life. I'm old now and remain an eager student. I prefer a nameless grave reading "the minder of stray animals and wayward children". That's been my life's work in earnest no matter the job title or specific hat I wore in life. The unpaid collateral duty I took upon myself. I chuckle to think what civilization would do with me 1,000 years ago-- likely stuff me in a nunnery to keep me quiet, rendered 'harmless' to philosophical pronouncements of the day.

It's more than a little disturbing to see so very many wayward children in 60 yr old bodies believing themselves to be leaders. Men are most powerful leading by example in their families, communities, and their nation. America was most powerful leading by example. Womankind did not steal mankinds crown. Too many of them refused to wear it off on a quest for shiny things believing it was what women wanted. It's what prostitutes most want and stroking a mans ego is obscenely profitable in our ill culture/ economic system. I say these things in defense of healthy marriage with no legislation in mind. Beating up gays will not defend marriage. What you fail to value withers and dies applicable to all parties concerned. Think again where your values are. Where is your energy, time and attention, invested?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2011, 08:03 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,782,788 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
the other option is to have a look at the constitution. the cosntitution devolves power to the states. whilst not perfect, it's the best for everyone in that it provides you with an option of moving to a state which more closely resembles your principles
Whether or not you can see it the migratory patterns of USA have more to do with economic needs in their given stage of life than just about anything else. What is called the great white flight from cities should be seen in light of how mean streets became but also child bearing years being expressed. Hence 'suburbia'/ urban sprawl.
Most of the residents of NYC are not native NY'rs, but the best and the brightest from around the world looking for opportunity. WV youth head out of this state soon after graduation for economic reasons. Same can be said of most of rural American youth born with gifts that don't have a place to grow there. What is a ballerina supposed to do in a Nebraska wheat field? She moves to NYC. Americans lost their community roots following their careers when companies have short term goals of take the money and run. Now government and commerce track identically with short term goals, long term health/ goals neglected. Our government is following pig in a poke paradigms but their loyalty, or core mission, got lost in the shuffle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2011, 08:09 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,782,788 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasDinganSich View Post
"American traditions" are subjective and overall backwards.

Let me rephrase this for you. Some people in this country want to progress but people like you want to hold it back with stone age "values."
I'd like to hear what you value, and what it is you believe he values without engaging character assassination habit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2011, 08:25 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,782,788 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Not my movie. You put it in your Ozark culture list. Apparently you just cut and paste without really reading what you are posting.

I believe the movie was filmed in Missouri. So not really a hollywood movie. I love the fact that more and more people are moving to Arkansas from California. But cheer up, most who are moving to places like the Ozarks are just as far out on the fringe as you are.
I left my native NY and returned to my grandmothers home state of WV because the price of real estate was inflated to such insane levels most of my life work would have to be dedicated to maintaining roof tiles. This was intentionally inflicted upon middle class with ambitions of upward mobility.

The higher the prices went, the higher peoples ambitions became, the more the home town values I grew up loving got trampled under. I don't care for the treadmill someone means to keep me on and I voted with my feet as did many native long islanders scattered across America today. 72 hrs of mandatory overtime for how long? Enough was enough. I don't hate NY but I sure did hate the huge pile of requirements being put on me for the privilege of breathing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2011, 09:05 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,782,788 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA View Post
Until Americans learn to think for themselves and stop believing all the agenda fueled rhetoric...I'm afraid we may never respect each "side" enough to work together to solve our problems. Like America...love it or leave it mentality....we must admit our shortcomings and try to overcome our suspicions of each other before we can move forward.
Pitts it's something of a lesson for young feminists to learn-- the respect they seek from others needs to start out as self respect inside first, then go out in the world and talk about what seems needful of change. Same could be said of any group of individuals- blacks, gays, latino's etc. There are a few programs running at the same time when people are upset. Sometimes it's stage of life growing pains. Sometimes it's being philosophically stuck as an individual or trying to rid themselves of an unhealthy habit. Other times it really is civilizations influence upon them. Discerning the difference is impossible for youth but they count on pioneers and elders to report back what they've learned along the road. Information being compromised the lessons are lost to all.

Love it or leave it America... seems there are dozens of definitions about what America really is floating around in some peoples heads. If it meant we were all going to walk our talk as Americans and it meant you'd have to be poorer to do it, would you stay? Once the plug to the carnival gets pulled, the illusions/ puffery people fell in love with will be gone. If commerce is cleaned up and everyone is universally obliged to make an honest living it might mean considerably less $$$$ for all not riding on hype. Can you live with that or do you need the toys? If we mean to win by dishonorable means, is there anything to be proud about? If I make the excuse I've killed or willfully neglected 20 people today so I could feed my family, is that legitimate?

Quote:
we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:09 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top