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It's not very well known but very, very few Americans supported independence. Even fewer wanted a republic, and in fact many of the Founding Fathers (ex. Hamilton) wanted to keep the monarchy. In fact, Hamilton proposed that the US become the equiviliant of a modern Commonwealth realm - we would have became independent but we would have retained the British monarch as head of state much like is currently the case in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica, St. Lucia, etc. Most Americans held George III in very high regard but did not like the policies of his government (ie: the elected parliament and Prime Minister Lord Fredrick North). If it wasent for Lord North we would have Queen Elizabeth II instead of Barack Obama. Even back in the 1760s and 1770s the British monarch was mostly a ceremonial head of state much like today, George III hated politics and very rarely got involved in government matters. Our beef was with Parliament, not the king.
It's not very well known but very, very few Americans supported independence. Even fewer wanted a republic, and in fact many of the Founding Fathers (ex. Hamilton) wanted to keep the monarchy. In fact, Hamilton proposed that the US become the equiviliant of a modern Commonwealth realm - we would have became independent but we would have retained the British monarch as head of state much like is currently the case in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica, St. Lucia, etc. Most Americans held George III in very high regard but did not like the policies of his government (ie: the elected parliament and Prime Minister Lord Fredrick North). If it wasent for Lord North we would have Queen Elizabeth II instead of Barack Obama. Even back in the 1760s and 1770s the British monarch was mostly a ceremonial head of state much like today, George III hated politics and very rarely got involved in government matters. Our beef was with Parliament, not the king.
No one knows exact numbers, but 3% support for the Founders is ludicrous. The most frequently used numbers I have seen were basically 1/3 for Independence, 1/3 for status quo, and 1/3 didn't care either way.
I don't see anywhere near 1/3 of Americans wanting a revolution. This is just stupid talk.
It's not very well known but very, very few Americans supported independence. Even fewer wanted a republic, and in fact many of the Founding Fathers (ex. Hamilton) wanted to keep the monarchy. In fact, Hamilton proposed that the US become the equiviliant of a modern Commonwealth realm - we would have became independent but we would have retained the British monarch as head of state much like is currently the case in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica, St. Lucia, etc. Most Americans held George III in very high regard but did not like the policies of his government (ie: the elected parliament and Prime Minister Lord Fredrick North). If it wasent for Lord North we would have Queen Elizabeth II instead of Barack Obama. Even back in the 1760s and 1770s the British monarch was mostly a ceremonial head of state much like today, George III hated politics and very rarely got involved in government matters. Our beef was with Parliament, not the king.
You want to know another interesting factoid about Hamilton. During the writing of the US Constitution, of which he was a part, Hamilton proposed the elimination of the states. That's right all you states rights folk that go on and on about the states creating the Fed Govt, one of the founding fathers proposed eliminating states altogether. The states (state govt's actually) didn't created the Fed Govt, the people of the entire country came together and created the Fed Govt.
You want to know another interesting factoid about Hamilton. During the writing of the US Constitution, of which he was a part, Hamilton proposed the elimination of the states. That's right all you states rights folk that go on and on about the states creating the Fed Govt, one of the founding fathers proposed eliminating states altogether. The states (state govt's actually) didn't created the Fed Govt, the people of the entire country came together and created the Fed Govt.
In a way I agree, why do we need states, are we not ONE Nation or not?
Casper
It's not very well known but very, very few Americans supported independence. Even fewer wanted a republic, and in fact many of the Founding Fathers (ex. Hamilton) wanted to keep the monarchy. In fact, Hamilton proposed that the US become the equiviliant of a modern Commonwealth realm - we would have became independent but we would have retained the British monarch as head of state much like is currently the case in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica, St. Lucia, etc. Most Americans held George III in very high regard but did not like the policies of his government (ie: the elected parliament and Prime Minister Lord Fredrick North). If it wasent for Lord North we would have Queen Elizabeth II instead of Barack Obama. Even back in the 1760s and 1770s the British monarch was mostly a ceremonial head of state much like today, George III hated politics and very rarely got involved in government matters. Our beef was with Parliament, not the king.
No. "Very, very few Americans" is actually not an accurate assessment. While historians have debated this issue for a long time, and we don't have hard figures on how many patriots supported the revolution versus how many loyalists supported the monarchy, we do have some estimates. About 15-20% of the colonists were active loyalists. And the suggestion is that the patriots made up an equivalent portion of the population, while the majority of the population was largely inactive. However, just because the majority did not actively participate on either side does not mean that they were undecided. Considering the widespread dissatisfaction with the British government, it is reasonable to think that the majority of colonists passively supported the revolution because, win or lose, the revolution would address some of the specific complainsts that the colonists had with the British government.
Which is why I asked where the 3% figure came from.
You want to know another interesting factoid about Hamilton. During the writing of the US Constitution, of which he was a part, Hamilton proposed the elimination of the states. That's right all you states rights folk that go on and on about the states creating the Fed Govt, one of the founding fathers proposed eliminating states altogether. The states (state govt's actually) didn't created the Fed Govt, the people of the entire country came together and created the Fed Govt.
um, so what? We all know that Hamilton was not only a staunch Federalist, but also that he wanted the government to control the monetary and banking systems.
In a way I agree, why do we need states, are we not ONE Nation or not?
Casper
Balance.
Our system of government is not just about balancing power between the three branches of the federal government. It's about restraining the power of that federal government as well. States and their independent powers are a check on federal power, which is necessary to protect the rights of individuals.
Hamilton's ideas of a strong central government were directly at odds with most of the other Founding Fathers who had embraced the humanism of Locke and the idea of social contracts of Rousseau.
Our system of government is not just about balancing power between the three branches of the federal government. It's about restraining the power of that federal government as well. States and their independent powers are a check on federal power, which is necessary to protect the rights of individuals.
Hamilton's ideas of a strong central government were directly at odds with most of the other Founding Fathers who had embraced the humanism of Locke and the idea of social contracts of Rousseau.
I agree, but what about restraining the power of states from mis-treating their residents. That seems to be a point about which most Libertarians and extreme right wing folk don't have an issue.
tell that to the founding fathers, all they had was 3% of the population to have a war called the revolutionary war.
3% of 7 million (the estimated population of the colonies at the time) would be 210K people. That would include children and women, and elderly who I doubt participated in war effort. However, over eight years, an estimated 250K men did. That is WAY more than 3% (even assuming that every able bodied man who supported the revolution participated on the fronts).
Our system of government is not just about balancing power between the three branches of the federal government. It's about restraining the power of that federal government as well. States and their independent powers are a check on federal power, which is necessary to protect the rights of individuals.
The balance was to deliver greatest freedom to individuals, not to the states. "State" was assumed because they were closer to the individuals. However, states were made sub-ordinates (one of the primary drivers to the formulation of US Constitution) to a large extent, in that they could only add to, but not delete from the federal authority.
And in an attempt to give more power to the individual (the effort to prevent oppression of the minority), they ended up giving more "per capita" power to states that had fewer people with equal representation in the senate. So, a theoretical state with just 100 people had the same number of senators in the congress as a state with 10 million.
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Hamilton's ideas of a strong central government were directly at odds with most of the other Founding Fathers who had embraced the humanism of Locke and the idea of social contracts of Rousseau.
Founders weren't just composed of anti-federalists. They also included federalists, who actually gained a lot more support in the formulation of the US Constitution than they previously had with Articles of Confederacy.
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