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I'm sure most americans are "quite able" to sustain additional tax burdens if they didnt have to have the coolest new phone, Ipod, shoes, vacations, cars, etc.
Your a Luddite, then? What is the point of an economy if not to produce new goods and services that are of value to consumers? PC's, microwaves, dishwashers, TV's, and refrigerators were all the coolest new gadgets of yesteryear. Want to go back to the times before them? Good luck with that.
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Originally Posted by CharlottePirateFan
That's not even the point. I was responding to the girl that said she was tired of people being in other peoples' business as far as what they make and what they are buying, etc.
And I was responding to your ridiculous caricature of those who believe that taxes on the rich should be increased.
Your a Luddite, then? What is the point of an economy if not to produce new goods and services that are of value to consumers? PC's, microwaves, dishwashers, TV's, and refrigerators were all the coolest new gadgets of yesteryear. Want to go back to the times before them? Good luck with that.
Go ahead and quote where I said companies shouldnt be producing newer/better goods and services. You truly do live in bizarro world.
You said the "rich" can easily afford to pay more taxes. To which I replied that I'm sure a lot more than just the "rich" can afford more taxes but they arent responsible with their money.
when i go to the food store i might be able to afford eight or ten items,
but the person in front of me in line has a cart overflowing with food and pays with food stamps.
this happens every time i go shopping. it is very discouraging.
usually i am the only one in line not paying with food stamps.
I've noticed an interesting trend in these discussions.
When debating economic policy, those on the right all become wealthy businessmen. Anyone who disagrees with right-wing economic policy is told to get off their ass and get rich themselves.
When debating welfare programs such as this, the same right-wingers suddenly become so poor that they can't afford food.
In economics, the right calls everyone else envious of the rich. In a discussion such as this, right-wingers become envious of the poor.
I've noticed an interesting trend in these discussions.
When debating economic policy, those on the right all become wealthy businessmen. Anyone who disagrees with right-wing economic policy is told to get off their ass and get rich themselves.
When debating welfare programs such as this, the same right-wingers suddenly become so poor that they can't afford food.
In economics, the right calls everyone else envious of the rich. In a discussion such as this, right-wingers become envious of the poor.
Interesting.
In discussions on taxes, the left says the rich can afford more. When it comes to welfare they tell everyone to get out of their business. They shouldnt worry what they are buying even if they are on welfare.
I could find hypocritical stances on many issues. From both sides. Lets not pretend its only one side here.
What exactly entitles you to the income of other people?
The fact that we live in an advanced society, where emphasis is placed on equal rights, equal protection under the law, and the existence of opportunity to succeed, is what entitles all of us to the income of other people.
If you don't like the cost of living in society, with roads, sidewalks, sewers, schools, police, firefighters, etc., no one is forcing you to do so. I know several places in the high Sierra where no one will find you. Bring a gun, fishing pole and warm clothing. Good luck in your one man anarchy!
In discussions on taxes, the left says the rich can afford more.
The rich CAN afford more. You don't have to be on the left to see that. You just need a working brain cell or two.
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When it comes to welfare they tell everyone to get out of their business. They shouldnt worry what they are buying even if they are on welfare.
And your point is?
I'm not on welfare, never have been, and I don't want anyone in my business. If I lost my job and needed assistance, I still wouldn't want anyone in my business.
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I could find hypocritical stances on many issues. From both sides. Lets not pretend its only one side here.
I'm not pretending anything. Don't pretend that I'm claiming hypocrisy comes from one side only.
Speaking of...
Don't you find it hypocritical that the right wants "government out of our business," yet they see no problem sticking their noses in the business of poor people?
I'm probably a little guilty of that. I don't like it when people use Food Stamps for groceries and then walk over to the service counter to buy cigarettes or lottery tickets.
I'm guilty of it too. One of the main reasons I got off assistance is because going to get the checks got on my nerves - I would be sitting there pissed off because I'd watch girls collect their WIC checks and then walk across the street to McDonald's and buy breakfast. From a personal experience, I will say those programs need to be revamped.
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Originally Posted by malamute
If you made the choice to have a baby on the taxpayers' dime, then you should expect they have the right to look at you load your cart with luxury items that they themselves cannot afford.
And if your father was able to buy you a luxury car, then why couldn't he help you with food? What exactly entitles you to the income of other people?
Well since I've been a tax payer since I was 15, I guess that entitled me for the 4 months of WIC checks I got. I expect people to mind their own damn business about how I'm paying for my food. You don't know anyone's situation based on what you see in the 3 minutes they are checking out - maybe last month they could afford formula but then husband lost his job/died/ran away with the maid. Point is - it's none of your business. If you can't pay for your food, then you shouldn't be in the grocery store. I can understand people having a problem with others "abusing" the program but you can't tell if someone is abusing the program because they have a nice car.
And the luxury car my father brought me was used but because the previous driver never drove it it was still in really nice condition. Besides it was brought 4 years prior to me having my son and by the time he came around my father had died. I'm sorry but I'm one of the few people who believe if there is a system in place to help me then I will use it. Once I started working full-time again, I didn't need the assistance and therefore didn't reapply. I guess the correct thing to do is let my child starve so I wouldn't be helping myself to the income of others
I don't see what the big deal is about the free phones -the people who are abusing the welfare system aren't the ones that have them - they usually have Iphones and G1s
You report them to social services who end up doing nothing, in america its not illegal to own nice things, even if your on welfare. You cant have a high net worth, but you're allowed a nice car with a very high car note on it.
I'm sure there are millions of people abusing the system. In fact, moving to FL was a real eye-opener. For years I'd be working on my feet 50+ hours a week with a very bad back, and as I stumbled out of my car in pain, I'd wave to my neighbors on their porches smoking & drinking beer paid for by Uncle Sam. That got me very depressed. Once I lost my eyeglasses and had to immediately buy a new pair so I used a credit card. One neighbor couldn't understand why I bothered to pay for glasses. "The state paid for mine. They didn't cost me a dime." Her friend, who drinks more in one day than I drink in a year, laughed at me when I got my Health Insurance License. You're crazy, Nancy. Who pays for health insurance? I just go to the ER and don't pay anything." They walked away laughing & shaking their heads as if I were the fool. Maybe they were right.
The problem is, if we didn't have some kind of Welfare System, Food Stamps or Medicaid, it would hurt the truly needy and deserving families would be homeless and hungry. Social Security Disability is another program that's abused by many, but if you have a terminal illness or you're so disabled you can't work, should you suffer because of the people who cheat?
I am constantly being labeled a Liberal because I believe the wealthy should pay their fair share and shouldn't be allowed so many loopholes or hide money in offshore accounts. Poor people should be treated with dignity and nobody needs to go hungry or decide between eating or buying medication. However, I still resent the way irresponsible people get bailed out much of the time by handouts from the government. When a system is a huge as our Welfare program, is there anyway to revamp it justly, without harming the destitute?
Last edited by justNancy; 05-06-2009 at 12:41 PM..
Reason: fix post
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