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I would say that the death penalty improves the behavior of a wrongdoer quite well....If you go read our Constitution and Bill of Rights you will find that it was written to protect us from a Monarch form of government.
You started discussing law and now government can we have some continuity please, quite clearly our laws are historically derived and our UK laws were formed first.
You started discussing law and now government can we have some continuity please, quite clearly our laws are historically derived and our UK laws were formed first.
Has a corpse got behavior, in your book?
I've only answered what I thought you brought up... Now I'm begining to feel as tho I'm talking to blank wall.....So I'll say "Good Nite Walls" That comes from an old country and western song in case you want to know....
Secondly, it's strictly from an economic perspective. It is a much bigger cost to taxpayers to put on a death penalty trial than one that the max. offense is life in prison without the possibility of parole. Then add on the appeals and it becomes even more expensive. So in terms of what is better economically for society, it's life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Repost from earlier.
Many opponents present, as fact, that the cost of the death penalty is so expensive (at least $2 million per case?), that we must choose life without parole ("LWOP") at a cost of $1 million for 50 years. Predictably, these pronouncements may be entirely false. JFA estimates that LWOP cases will cost $1.2 million - $3.6 million more than equivalent death penalty cases.
There is no question that the up front costs of the death penalty are significantly higher than for equivalent LWOP cases. There also appears to be no question that, over time, equivalent LWOP cases are much more expensive - from $1.2 to $3.6 million - than death penalty cases. Opponents ludicrously claim that the death penalty costs, over time, 3-10 times more than LWOP.
U.S. Vital Statistics Abstract, 1994 and Capital Punishment 1995, BJS 1996.
it must point to something we are doing wrong in our upbringing of children.
Some individuals are just born evil, inspite of their parents or environment.
Quote:
Executions merely stoke the fire and pander to the natural hatreds that are exercised by having a revengeful system.
Revengeful? Or Justice? I believe a system that bends over backwards to protect the accused, often forsaking the victim(s) in the process, is far from revengeful.
Can anybody, honestly, say or argue, that any of these monsters deserved to live? Like a tumor, they not only need to be removed, but all signs that they ever were need to be eliminated.
I understand all the arguments about the cost of executions and how capitl punishment devalues human life. If somebody did something horrible to one of my kids though I would want that person dead. I don't care a damn about deterrence. It would in that case be about closure for me and justice (or revenge if you will) for my kids. I think family members of these tragedies should be given that. I think it should only happen when the proof is overwhelming, with DNA testing for example.
I agree. In principle I am against capital punishment, as in essence we are saying we are no better than the murderer and I am also concerned about the risks of executing innocent people. In practice all my better feelings go out of the window when I think about anyone murdering my partner for example , when revenge would be my only way to cope and deal with it. I also believe that sadly death is the only deterrent for recidivist crimes such as paedophilia. You can't ever commit crimes when you are dead. It shames me to feel like this but I can't help it. I believe maybe we should have a system where only absolute proof yes I know, it's supposed to be like this but sadly this has not been always true) is required for capital punishment and that it should be up to the family not the courts to decide whether the death penalty is to be enacted.
Condemning innocent people is my main concern still so I am really torn on the issue. I do feel we should have more respect and care for the victims of crime than for criminals but the idea of condemning an innocent to jail, never mind death makes me wince. After all we could all end up convicted of something we haven't done because of erroneous evidence.
I am also really shocked at the discrimination regarding race where death row is concerned.
United States of America: Death by discrimination - the continuing role of race in capital cases. - Amnesty International (http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr510462003 - broken link)
The danger that innocent people will be executed because of errors in the criminal justice system is getting worse. A total of 69 people have been released from death row since 1973 after evidence of their innocence emerged. Twenty-one condemned inmates have been released since 1993, including seven from the state of Illinois alone. Many of these cases were discovered not because of the normal appeals process, but rather as a result of new scientific techniques, investigations by journalists, and the dedicated work of expert attorneys, not available to the typical death row inmate.
This report tells the stories of people like Rolando Cruz, released after 10 years on Illinois's death row, despite the fact that another man had confessed to the crime shortly after his conviction; and Ricardo Aldape Guerra, who returned to Mexico after 15 years on Texas's death row because of a prosecution that a federal judge called outrageous and designed to simply achieve another notch on the prosecutor's guns.
To me it's a really difficult question , not a really obvious one.
"To me it's a really difficult question , not a really obvious one."
The above quote from Mooseketer's post.
I am reminded of an occasion some years ago, when, speaking to a high court judge here in the UK, the topic of the Birmingham Six came up (it was about that time that they were released) he said " Even so they were guilty of some other crimes, so what, they deserved it"
This from the lips of a judge, what chance justice?
Fundamentally societies problems need very careful consideration if we are to achieve a non killer society, I doubt that support for and continuance of the death penalty will have good long term success, after all it has not worked thus far.
Some still believe that some babies are born bad and indeed some might be but it is a great leap to say all that commit crime are born that way.
Most of our present day leaders have admitted taking drugs when young (a crime) and some have sprung from the armed groups that were formerly called by the UK government 'terrorist's.
Kill one and you are a murderer kill a thousand and you are a liberator/ hero/ saviour/great leader etc etc.
Much as any reasonable person is entitled to loath rapists, murderers, etc etc. we need to fully understand why such criminals emerge from childhood, not for the salvation of the felon but for the salvation of mankind.
I agree. In principle I am against capital punishment, as in essence we are saying we are no better than the murderer and I am also concerned about the risks of executing innocent people. In practice all my better feelings go out of the window when I think about anyone murdering my partner for example , when revenge would be my only way to cope and deal with it. I also believe that sadly death is the only deterrent for recidivist crimes such as paedophilia. You can't ever commit crimes when you are dead. It shames me to feel like this but I can't help it. I believe maybe we should have a system where only absolute proof yes I know, it's supposed to be like this but sadly this has not been always true) is required for capital punishment and that it should be up to the family not the courts to decide whether the death penalty is to be enacted.
Condemning innocent people is my main concern still so I am really torn on the issue. I do feel we should have more respect and care for the victims of crime than for criminals but the idea of condemning an innocent to jail, never mind death makes me wince. After all we could all end up convicted of something we haven't done because of erroneous evidence.
I am also really shocked at the discrimination regarding race where death row is concerned.
United States of America: Death by discrimination - the continuing role of race in capital cases. - Amnesty International (http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr510462003 - broken link)
The danger that innocent people will be executed because of errors in the criminal justice system is getting worse. A total of 69 people have been released from death row since 1973 after evidence of their innocence emerged. Twenty-one condemned inmates have been released since 1993, including seven from the state of Illinois alone. Many of these cases were discovered not because of the normal appeals process, but rather as a result of new scientific techniques, investigations by journalists, and the dedicated work of expert attorneys, not available to the typical death row inmate.
This report tells the stories of people like Rolando Cruz, released after 10 years on Illinois's death row, despite the fact that another man had confessed to the crime shortly after his conviction; and Ricardo Aldape Guerra, who returned to Mexico after 15 years on Texas's death row because of a prosecution that a federal judge called outrageous and designed to simply achieve another notch on the prosecutor's guns.
To me it's a really difficult question , not a really obvious one.
Go read about these fine upstanding fellows and let know which ones you think are innocent.....Besure and read about their victims...
"To me it's a really difficult question , not a really obvious one."
The above quote from Mooseketer's post.
I am reminded of an occasion some years ago, when, speaking to a high court judge here in the UK, the topic of the Birmingham Six came up (it was about that time that they were released) he said " Even so they were guilty of some other crimes, so what, they deserved it"
This from the lips of a judge, what chance justice?
Fundamentally societies problems need very careful consideration if we are to achieve a non killer society, I doubt that support for and continuance of the death penalty will have good long term success, after all it has not worked thus far.
Some still believe that some babies are born bad and indeed some might be but it is a great leap to say all that commit crime are born that way.
Most of our present day leaders have admitted taking drugs when young (a crime) and some have sprung from the armed groups that were formerly called by the UK government 'terrorist's.
Kill one and you are a murderer kill a thousand and you are a liberator/ hero/ saviour/great leader etc etc.
Much as any reasonable person is entitled to loath rapists, murderers, etc etc. we need to fully understand why such criminals emerge from childhood, not for the salvation of the felon but for the salvation of mankind.
I pretty much agree with you on the whole but I still feel that should anybody kill a loved one I would turn into a murderous machine so I feel a bit hypocritical. I am really very uncomfortable with the concept and have struggled with this for a very long time.
You started discussing law and now government can we have some continuity please, quite clearly our laws are historically derived and our UK laws were formed first.
That's why we left.
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Again.....
