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Old 03-11-2011, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
Reputation: 3826

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Then it is a very good thing that nobody in this thread has advocated such a model.
My sincere apologies sir. The thread title threw me off.

Quote:
Are you actually not considering or planning for content delivery over hand held mobile devices? At all?

Really?
Only Leonardo does this. All the other models are PC based and for good reasons. Some of our studies require biometric feedback and sensors on chairs to determine boredom, "flow", curiosity, etc. Logistically it is not a good idea with mobile devices. Each research project has a different goal and nothing compares to the flexibility of the standard PC gaming system for pedagogical agents.

Also, the gaming engine and computational resources is WAY outside of the iPad/Xoom's capabilities.

Now, if you'll excuse me, it's time to start earning my NSF keep.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,070,698 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Only Leonardo does this. All the other models are PC based and for good reasons. Some of our studies require biometric feedback and sensors on chairs to determine boredom, "flow", curiosity, etc. Logistically it is not a good idea with mobile devices. Each research project has a different goal and nothing compares to the flexibility of the standard PC gaming system for pedagogical agents.
Those are your studies... which I'm sure are used to help design your content.

Will you actually deliver the ultimate content that way?

Because I have to tell you, that's the sort of model that might have me joining hands with Happy Texan and start complaining about cost and infrastructure overhead... as well as practicality.

It's one thing to hook a kid up to biometrics for a study. It's another thing to expect them to spend everyday learning that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73
Also, the gaming engine and computational resources is WAY outside of the iPad/Xoom's capabilities.
So far. But that's hardly saying much. Just think about clock speed as a single dimension (I know, it's a blunt instrument, but I had to pick one).

Apollo 11 had a 2.048 MHz CPU. These days you can get ~4 GHz in many home PCs. That 2.048 MHz would be equivalent to what a modern graphical/scientific calculator would run.

These are just engineering problems. Not barriers.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:10 PM
 
3,264 posts, read 5,589,334 times
Reputation: 1395
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
it is pretty clear that a teacher standing in front of a room as a "primary mode" is failing us. This is what requires us to march towards the lowest common denominator in terms of content and pace.

The ability to customize and deliver curricula at the pace of the individual student could revolutionize our competitiveness. Devices like these will allow that.
Colored responses go with the text above.

Why did it work here in the U.S. for decades? What's so different about modern day kids that we need to say the model is failing us? Sounds like you're bending to the kids. That's backwards. Kids should respectfully bend to their elders. Why does the old model continue to work in eastern Asia without gizmos?

Sounds like coddling to me.

Last edited by grimace8; 03-11-2011 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:10 PM
 
Location: NJ
23,533 posts, read 17,208,400 times
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Better to supply electronic shock collars so the good students aren't held back by thugs pretending to be 'students'.

That's the biggest gain to make a huge difference in improving overall student achievement along with banning tenure and establishing teacher performance ratings.

Technology is no substitute for teaching and learning, it can be an aid.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,070,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace8 View Post
Why did it work here in the U.S. for decades? What's so different about modern day kids that we need to say the model is failing us?
Because our economy and our job market was completely different than it is today. Our current system was designed first and foremost to allow time off for the harvest, secondarily to educate people for manual trades and manufacturing. I'm sure you've noticed that we have evolved rather powerfully into a service / technology economy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace8 View Post
Why does the old model continue to work in eastern Asia without gizmos?
Because eastern Asian economies and job markets are also different than ours is today. Last summer, the New Republic ran a great article on those models that made a very good case that "Singapore and China are terrible models of education for any nation that aspires to remain a pluralistic democracy. They have not succeeded on their own business-oriented terms, and they have energetically suppressed imagination and analysis when it comes to the future of the nation and the tough choices that lie before it."

The Ugly Models | The New Republic

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace8
Sounds like coddling to me.
Tell that to the brilliant kids who cannot advance because the teacher must accommodate the pace their less gifted classmates.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,070,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
Better to supply electronic shock collars so the good students aren't held back by thugs pretending to be 'students'.
Better yet to educate both groups in the most beneficial ways for our nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer
That's the biggest gain to make a huge difference in improving overall student achievement along with banning tenure and establishing teacher performance ratings.
I hope Happy Texan is listening. He finally has somebody to argue with who actually is blaming the teachers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer
Technology is no substitute for teaching and learning, it can be an aid.
Yes. That's apparently what "as a part of learning" means.

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Old 03-11-2011, 12:33 PM
 
3,264 posts, read 5,589,334 times
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Quote:
Singapore and China are trying to move toward open-ended progressive education that cultivates student creativity—just as we seem to be moving away, with the increasing emphasis on teaching to the test that has been the result of No Child Left Behind.
If those 2 nations succeed in that, then "watch out world". Ah, good old "nicklebee". I like how the article suggests NCLB ain't quite working. Aren't the proponents of mobile devices for K-12 likely the same proponents of NCLB?

Quote:
American leaders, impressed by the economic success of Singapore and China, frequently sound envious when talking about those countries’ educational systems. President Obama, for example, invoked Singapore in a March 2009 speech, saying that educators there “are spending less time teaching things that don’t matter, and more time teaching things that do.
Are you saying Obama is wrong?
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,070,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace8 View Post
I like how the article suggests NCLB ain't quite working. Aren't the proponents of mobile devices for K-12 likely the same proponents of NCLB?
Probably not. Almost everybody I know who really cares about being able to customize curricula for the individual child hates NCLB with a passion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace8
Are you saying Obama is wrong?
The point he made in that quotation wasn't wrong. But his appeal to Singapore as a general model sure was.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:55 PM
 
3,264 posts, read 5,589,334 times
Reputation: 1395
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Probably not. Almost everybody I know who really cares about being able to customize curricula for the individual child hates NCLB with a passion.
When the kid (hopefully) enters the workforce (instead of prison or gang life), his/her employer probably won't customize the job to accommodate the individual. Something to keep in mind.

Let's be aware of what's unspoken (and address possible consequences) in the choices we make.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:57 PM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,680,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace8 View Post
"Within five years, every K-12 student in America will be using a mobile handheld device as a part of learning" - Elliot Soloway, GoKnow Founder
link to GoKnow website
also: http://b2b.vzw.com/assets/files/GoKnow_Inc.pdf
And how is this going to be paid for exactly?

This is the federal department of education at work :-)
Is it just me or do books seem to hard for kids these days. Or will the pussys of the world call this ADD issues.
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