Nuclear power plant leaking, emergencies declared at 5 nuclear reactors

[AONE]

You left out some numbers in your analysis... How many died from Chernobyl?... an estimated 500,000-1,000,000 .... That was only one plant with a problem. Japan has 5 and you are calling it before the race even started.... Come back in a year and lets see how many die , then in 10 years, and 25, and 100... or did you forget this stuff doesn't go away? in fact it lasts 250,000 years.

For the record... coal mine deaths amount to about 5000 over the last 90 years. oil and gas lost about the same since 2003 . while bad, those numbers aren't close to 1 nuke disaster.

Solar panels don't have to be connected to a grid... we could have energy independence from even the power companies too... At todays cost I could make my home energy independent with wind for about $16,000 , and solar seems to be about 20-30k. These have no special cost reductions that could come from mass production... hardly a need to be a millionaire.

Originally Posted by NHartphotog

I bet you don't have an all-solar and wind powered house and car, unless you're a multi-millionaire.

Solar panels aren't grid-reliable. Neither is wind or any other "green" power. They're fine for tiny, point-of-source supplement, but you can't run a nation on them, even if we could afford the cost of 15X - 24X more. Go ahead and pay $1,500 a month for your electric bill for the rest of your life (and subsidize all those who can't afford it); I'll stick with the $100.

And I'm sick of paying for foreign oil wars that protect our Mideast Oil Supplies; if we had an actual multi-pronged energy policy, we'd have an economic future instead of endless wars and Recession after Recession.

How many people have EVER died or were injured, ever, in the US due to nuclear accidents? None--including Three Mile Island.

How many people will die in Japan due to nuclear accidents? None. They have technophobic public officials with a progressive agenda there, too, but the explosion was a boiler, like all power plants have.

For comparison, how many people die in coal mining, oil refinery explosions, natural gas explosions, other power plant problems, etc? Try thousands a year worldwide.

Maybe we shouldn't have uneducated Chicken Littles making national energy policy and condemning us to constant Mideast oil wars, endlessly burning fossil fuels and costs that will leave us a Third-World nation.

[AADAD]

It's the mindset that is the problem while developing thinking to spawn the technology. "manifest destiny" has ended for now but many yet do not know it...

cheap solar power based upon new (i mean really new) tech could easily support a "grid" however that thinking has yet to arrive.

in the meantime the cavalier acceptance of nuclear has just hit it's limit and the earth has said so. we probably won't listen but I am hopeful that we may yet realize that we must change to sustain our lives on the earth.

[ergohead]

Originally Posted by momonkey

"The International Atomic Energy Agency said in a statement that diesel generators that normally would have kept cooling systems running at Fukushima Daiichi had been disabled by tsunami flooding."

Nobody planned on a tsunami following a major earthquake?

Who would employ a Nattering Nabob of Negativism?

[ergohead]

Nuclear power and earthquake zones overlap in the U.S. | MNN - Mother Nature Network

[cruxan]

Police: 10,000 likely dead in one Japan region - World news - Asia-Pacific - msnbc.com

[AADAD]

4th nuclear plant 75 miles north of Tokyo is having cooling problems

Quake Death Toll in Japan Soars;

Nuclear Crisis Spreads to 4th Plant

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[Mircea]

Originally Posted by AADAD

I don't know which to be more impressed by: your lack of clear thinking or your lack of sound reasoning. You may want to look at the pictures coming out of the area of the nuclear catastrophe since you are just fine with the plan to flood the reactor.

And pictures provide "sound reasoning?"

Sound reasoning includes knowing what a nominal sized particle is. It's about 48 microns.

Sound reasoning includes knowing that a nominal sized particles falls 2,000 feet per hour.

Sound reasoning includes knowing that a nuclear power plant cannot "explode" like a nuclear warhead; and that the two primary dangers to nuclear reactors are fire and a runaway nuclear reaction, what most people call a "meltdown."

And why is fire and a meltdown a problem? Because they produce heat. And why is heat a problem? Because heat is in contact with air. And why is that a problem? Because the heat increase the temperature of the surrounding air. And why is that a problem? Because warm air rises.

And why is that a problem? Because fire and the temperatures in a meltdown vaporize radioactive isotopes and those, um, nominal sized particles will rise with into the air with the heat plume created by a fire or a meltdown.

So if vaporized U238 atoms rise to a height of 10,000 feet from the heat plume caused by a fire or meltdown, will it reach the US?

If the wind is blowing at 600 mph it would.

I think we can rule that out.

You'd probably know that stuff if you worked in the Plans & Operations Section of an army battalion/squadron or division. That's how you calculate fallout and plot it's path on a map. You scream at the field artillery pukes to give you the upper air data, which is wind speed and direction, because it changes every 2,000 to 5,000 feet. At 12,000 feet the wind could be blowing east at 18 knots, and then 14,000 feet it could be blowing north at 25 knots.

And remember, a nominal sized particle falls 2,000 feet per hour irrespective of wind speed. In order for any radioactive particles from those plants in Japan to reach mainland USA, they would have to get to an altitude of about 80,000 to 100,000 feet, which is highly unlikely.

If I remember, the plume from Chernobyl was pushing stuff up into the 26,000 to 30,000 foot range (and wind speed and direction wasn't exactly advantageous for certain European countries but then you have realize that most European countries are half the size of the average US state so going from Chernobyl to Stockholm is like going from Atlanta to Minneapolis).

Originally Posted by AADAD

And by the way it is estimated that 1000 people were exposed to lethal radiation at this point in time.

And lethal radiation is what, exactly?

Originally Posted by AONE

You left out some numbers in your analysis... How many died from Chernobyl?... an estimated 500,000-1,000,000 ....

Yes, estimated by GreenPeace, if you trust their numbers and methodology (and I don't).

Your typical fission reactor is loaded with U238 which contains U235 (usually enriched to 12%-15% --- U238 normally contains 0.72% U235).

The main reaction is U238 + n --> Np239 - β --> Pu239.

Additional reactions are Pu239 + n --> Pu240 and Pu240 + n --> Pu241 (and a really sloppy reactor operator will give Pu241 + n --> Pu242).

If you inhale vaporized Plutonium in the air you would die within 3 days if it was 1 milligram or more, and within 30 days if it was 1 microgram.

'Tis better to eat radioactive materials than to inhale them, especially certain radioisotopes, but U238 and U235 are not nearly as deadly as Plutonium (just ask people who live in Denver).

Originally Posted by momonkey

"The International Atomic Energy Agency said in a statement that diesel generators that normally would have kept cooling systems running at Fukushima Daiichi had been disabled by tsunami flooding."

Nobody planned on a tsunami following a major earthquake?

That's why you can't have the government or corporations involved with nuclear power. It's bureaucrat-mentality and bureaucrat-mentality light, which always fails. You need the participation of private individuals and private civic or public groups who have the inherent ability to think outside the box.

[AADAD]

And they were just as correct about Vietnam and WMD and knowing that we were going to get attacked on 9/11 etc etc.... as you are about your suppositions....all good in theory and simply useless in real life when the **** hits the fan.

oh. by the way the jet stream moves far more quickly at altitude. easily enough to distribute all that non existent particles....

My point being we really do not know how this is going to go down...really. Sorry to say. There are currently 3 nuclear plants in meltdown and a 4th sounds like it's right behind it....you make your plans and I'll make mine.