question about how we view soldiers... (minimum wage, Virginia, employees, percentage)
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I did two tours in Vietnam and on my discharge was hired by a Police department where 90% of hires were Vietnam Veterans. Although I dealt with demonstrations i never experienced the hatred potrayed on TV
As I remember it, attitudes differed about officers and enlisted. A lot of the people I knew during VN and immediately after respected the officers, who were generally college educated, but considered the enlisted kids as kind of uneducated lower life forms they really didn't want their daughters hanging around with and certainly didn't want their sons to emulate. I would guess a much higher proportion of the ones who became mentally screwed up were enlisted, possibly as a result of this double standard.
The aristocracy vs the peasants. I have had to sit through many lectures on the distinctions between orifice and enlisted. And I have been assigned to give those lectures to junior enlisted men.
I wasnt born yet when the vietnam war was going on, but I have been reading that most of the population back in the states had hatred for the soldiers over there fighting, just wondering why that was? Im assuming because the people were getting tired of hearing about the war and took it out on those that decided to serve in it? Well, if this is true, then we are approaching that same sentiment again, it wont be to long before people get tired of hearing about the two wars we are in now, and possibly getting ready to start another one? People will first take it out on the elected to office in washington, then after awhile, they begin to have hatred for the troops who decide to serve. It may not seem that way with all the support our troops signs we see all over, but I believe what happened in vietnam will happen again once people get sick of hearing about it.
It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.
I think you've mistaken hatred of the war for hatred of the soldiers. I was there, and there were many that dodged the draft because they didn't want to be part of it. Others went because they felt it was their duty, and came home changed forever. I never saw one returning soldier that was glad they went, but I never saw one condemned for going, either.
I hate war. It's a failure of diplomacy. I don't hate soldiers. I believe in a strong military DEFENSE of our homeland. I do NOT believe we should be going to others' countries to protect our business interests. Didn't then, don't now.
I am grateful for the freedoms we have, but those freedoms did not come from war on foreign soil -- unless you claim the freedom to guzzle fossil fuels, and exploit under-developed nations for our own greed. We didn't have any just cause to be in Vietnam, and we don't for being in the Middle East, now.
The central divisive aspect of the Vietnam conflcit was the existence of the draft. It forced young men to do things they would not have chosen to do voluntarily. I include among those "things" not only military service and its horrors (and I speak from experience, having spent a year in the infantry in Vietnam 1967-68), but also the "anti-war" protests and general sense of alientation and hatred for one's country and fellow-citizens, which lingers today and can be percieved in some of the posts in this thread.
It was the draft more than anything else which forced the United States to give up on the Vietnam adventure, since it sacrificed our young men arbitrarily for the strategic errors of our government. The fact that the draft no longer exists is a direct consequence of Vietnam, since university students and the sons of wealthy campaign donors are constituencies which are too powerful for our poiticians to offend.
On the other hand, the democritization of service which was a positive aspect of the draft in peacetime and in "justified" conflicts like World War II, have been lost with the establishment of the current all-volunteer force, which impacts the poor and minorities disproportionately and forces them to bear the burden of our foreign policy initiatives.
To my mind this carries two major negative consequences: it has created a totally mercenary armed force largely composed of officer careerists and an enlisted underclass; and it isloates the rest of society from the need to contribute or serve in any meaningful sense, other than through taxation.
I have mixed feelings about all this (just as I do about my service in Vietnam, of which I am neither ashamed nor espeically proud, since I felt at the time that I was merely doing my duty as an American citizen): as a father, I am of course very glad neither of my sons has had to experience combat -- particularly in pursuit of such questionable goals as in Vietnam or in Afghanistan -- but I do wish that they had had some sort of national service to perform, since they would have benefitted from working side-by-side with members of other groups of citizens on a shared goal.
I wonder how long, in fact, it will be possible for our country to continue on its present course of requiring nothing from its citizens but money, and ignoring the importance of developing a sense of civic responsiblity among the general population. On the other hand, we also badly need a government which is more judicious in engaging in foreign actions which are more firmly based in reality and strategic sense than the past few (and current) admnistrations.
Those of us who served can at least claim to have faithfully answered our country's call. To some of our fellow citizens, that makes us pawns; to others, we are heroes. Personally, I am not comfortable with either label...
The central divisive aspect of the Vietnam conflcit was the existence of the draft. It forced young men to do things they would not have chosen to do voluntarily. I include among those "things" not only military service and its horrors (and I speak from experience, having spent a year in the infantry in Vietnam 1967-68), but also the "anti-war" protests and general sense of alientation and hatred for one's country and fellow-citizens, which lingers today and can be percieved in some of the posts in this thread.
It was the draft more than anything else which forced the United States to give up on the Vietnam adventure, since it sacrificed our young men arbitrarily for the strategic errors of our government. The fact that the draft no longer exists is a direct consequence of Vietnam, since university students and the sons of wealthy campaign donors are constituencies which are too powerful for our poiticians to offend.
On the other hand, the democritization of service which was a positive aspect of the draft in peacetime and in "justified" conflicts like World War II, have been lost with the establishment of the current all-volunteer force, which impacts the poor and minorities disproportionately and forces them to bear the burden of our foreign policy initiatives.
To my mind this carries two major negative consequences: it has created a totally mercenary armed force largely composed of officer careerists and an enlisted underclass; and it isloates the rest of society from the need to contribute or serve in any meaningful sense, other than through taxation.
I have mixed feelings about all this (just as I do about my service in Vietnam, of which I am neither ashamed nor espeically proud, since I felt at the time that I was merely doing my duty as an American citizen): as a father, I am of course very glad neither of my sons has had to experience combat -- particularly in pursuit of such questionable goals as in Vietnam or in Afghanistan -- but I do wish that they had had some sort of national service to perform, since they would have benefitted from working side-by-side with members of other groups of citizens on a shared goal.
I wonder how long, in fact, it will be possible for our country to continue on its present course of requiring nothing from its citizens but money, and ignoring the importance of developing a sense of civic responsiblity among the general population. On the other hand, we also badly need a government which is more judicious in engaging in foreign actions which are more firmly based in reality and strategic sense than the past few (and current) admnistrations.
Those of us who served can at least claim to have faithfully answered our country's call. To some of our fellow citizens, that makes us pawns; to others, we are heroes. Personally, I am not comfortable with either label...
of course, soldiers have no ability to question their government's actions.
The central divisive aspect of the Vietnam conflcit was the existence of the draft. It forced young men to do things they would not have chosen to do voluntarily. I include among those "things" not only military service and its horrors (and I speak from experience, having spent a year in the infantry in Vietnam 1967-68), but also the "anti-war" protests and general sense of alientation and hatred for one's country and fellow-citizens, which lingers today and can be percieved in some of the posts in this thread.
It was the draft more than anything else which forced the United States to give up on the Vietnam adventure, since it sacrificed our young men arbitrarily for the strategic errors of our government. The fact that the draft no longer exists is a direct consequence of Vietnam, since university students and the sons of wealthy campaign donors are constituencies which are too powerful for our poiticians to offend.
On the other hand, the democritization of service which was a positive aspect of the draft in peacetime and in "justified" conflicts like World War II, have been lost with the establishment of the current all-volunteer force, which impacts the poor and minorities disproportionately and forces them to bear the burden of our foreign policy initiatives.
To my mind this carries two major negative consequences: it has created a totally mercenary armed force largely composed of officer careerists and an enlisted underclass; and it isloates the rest of society from the need to contribute or serve in any meaningful sense, other than through taxation.
I have mixed feelings about all this (just as I do about my service in Vietnam, of which I am neither ashamed nor espeically proud, since I felt at the time that I was merely doing my duty as an American citizen): as a father, I am of course very glad neither of my sons has had to experience combat -- particularly in pursuit of such questionable goals as in Vietnam or in Afghanistan -- but I do wish that they had had some sort of national service to perform, since they would have benefitted from working side-by-side with members of other groups of citizens on a shared goal.
I wonder how long, in fact, it will be possible for our country to continue on its present course of requiring nothing from its citizens but money, and ignoring the importance of developing a sense of civic responsiblity among the general population. On the other hand, we also badly need a government which is more judicious in engaging in foreign actions which are more firmly based in reality and strategic sense than the past few (and current) admnistrations.
Those of us who served can at least claim to have faithfully answered our country's call. To some of our fellow citizens, that makes us pawns; to others, we are heroes. Personally, I am not comfortable with either label...
of course, soldiers have no ability to question their government's actions.
look at terry lakin.
i don't imagine that there are huge numbers of people willing to sign up to blindly go into "adventures" that don't even affect us. the draft would bring unpopular wars to the forefront of america.
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