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Old 03-15-2011, 03:13 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,204,597 times
Reputation: 753

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strel View Post
I disagree that his plans are what he says they are.

That administration is making a lot of purely ideological decisions, without regard to the real-world consequences...

His own party will smack him down. They will have to, since the Democrats are basically neutered.
you are right, scott has perhaps taken the view that keynesian stimulus is not the way to the promised land. at somepoint one has to take a ideological stand because if you allow one corporation to feed at the trough, the rest will follow shortly. he's probably the best person in the country to vouch for that.

in tampa for instance, the county is funding the revamp of the st pete times. it's insane. $40million dollars to upgrade the stadium. like disney, the owners should fund their own revamp. they always sell it as a job creator and people fall for it all the time. some rich dude gets all the small businesses and households to fund his revamp and then he tells us it's for our own good!
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,798,123 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
sorry eg, i like you, but this is the umteenth post of nonsense. states and govts competing for tax revenue is as old as govt itself.if one company leaves michigan because it favors the tax system in texas, that has NOTHING to do with interstate commerce.

race to the bottom?? what on earth are you on about today?
You could do better than to label a disagreement of opinion as non-sense. You might not see it, but our economy is in shambles for pretty much the same reason internationally, that you recommend nationally. With corporations seeking cheaper confines and labor in developing and third world countries, unabated, we're technically in a race that won't settle unless we get to the bottom.

And the point you make is actually in practice today (you've already admitted to it), and it is hurting the people. And doing so isn't helping a state like Texas either. In fact, the wiggle room in the budget is now so thin that there is barely anything to cut to address the tens of billions in deficit.

And I mentioned interstate commerce because there are occasions when products and services do cross state boundaries.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,370,675 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BEFORE THEY SECEEDED!

I have yet to see any anybody take a serious crack at repealing the Fourteen Amendment.

I suppose you feel the Thirteenth and Fifteenth Amendments were power grabs to.

And you're damn right repealing these Amendments is just that A PIPE DREAM.
Secession was legal under the federal constitution, the Supreme Court said so.

Lincoln committed an overt act against his oath to uphold the laws of the United States by sending federal troops to Southern states first.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:53 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,021,430 times
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"left won't get on board with states rights?"

A state's right to do what?
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:03 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,204,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
"left won't get on board with states rights?"

A state's right to do what?

to nullify federal drug laws, nullify the patriot act, nullify no child left behind, nullify obamacare etc. it works to nullify federal overreach and allows the states to declare federal bills unconstitutional.
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,370,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
to nullify federal drug laws, nullify the patriot act, nullify no child left behind, nullify obamacare etc. it works to nullify federal overreach and allows the states to declare federal bills unconstitutional.
We can't nullify obamacare until we nullify the emergency medical care act. Reagan mandated that hospitals care for every person regardless of their ability to pay, then didn't set up a system to pay for that care. Obamacare answers that problem. Fruit of the poisoned tree, but I have to ask, could you stomach children being denied care and dying in the street?


Should we disband federal schools? Our economy steadily grew after we enacted mandatory education standards. NCLB, while being a bad way to do it, tries to address the problem of poor performance in schools. But again, its the fruit of another tree which is national education.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:23 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,204,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
could you stomach children being denied care and dying in the street?
.
is that was what was happening before reagan enacted this? kids dying in the street. it was a bit of a loaded question. ever heard of shriners, the red cross, doctors without borders? that is besides the point. i will look at this issue from a purely economic standpoint even if it is off topic.

there are 2 sides to this equation a demand and a supply side. we have a situation in america where there is not enough supply to meet that demand and that is why the price is going up. there are other factors like medical malpractice insurance where some doctors are paying in excess of $200k pa, but i've just come to the conclusion that there aren't enough doctors.
every year 50000 of the nations brightest kids apply to med school, 17000 of them get places. i've argued that there are monopolies in palce which make this so, but whatever it is, this needs to change. if we can accomodate most kids in every other vocation i don't see why medicine isn't meeting the demand.
you also need to consider that a nurse who is 'qualified' to treat our soldiers in iraq for broken bones, isn't allowed to practice that same thing at home. why? this type of nonsense further diminishes supply.

on the demand side, we have an 'insurance' system where many don't contribute co=pays or have deductables. this means that people go to the doctor more often than they need to because it's free. my grandmother, mother and sister all have these healthcare systems where they don't contribute the first dime. the result is that they abuse the system heavily. when i lived in england on the nhs, we also abused that system heavily, though i'd argue that when i did need it it didn't come through for me.

if you address these issues, the cost for medical fall dramatically as do insurance costs. the numbers of kids whose family could not afford this insurance would be more than adequately covered by charity hospitals
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,370,675 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
is that was what was happening before reagan enacted this? kids dying in the street. it was a bit of a loaded question. ever heard of shriners, the red cross, doctors without borders? that is besides the point. i will look at this issue from a purely economic standpoint even if it is off topic.

there are 2 sides to this equation a demand and a supply side. we have a situation in america where there is not enough supply to meet that demand and that is why the price is going up. there are other factors like medical malpractice insurance where some doctors are paying in excess of $200k pa, but i've just come to the conclusion that there aren't enough doctors.
every year 50000 of the nations brightest kids apply to med school, 17000 of them get places. i've argued that there are monopolies in palce which make this so, but whatever it is, this needs to change. if we can accomodate most kids in every other vocation i don't see why medicine isn't meeting the demand.
you also need to consider that a nurse who is 'qualified' to treat our soldiers in iraq for broken bones, isn't allowed to practice that same thing at home. why? this type of nonsense further diminishes supply.

on the demand side, we have an 'insurance' system where many don't contribute co=pays or have deductables. this means that people go to the doctor more often than they need to because it's free. my grandmother, mother and sister all have these healthcare systems where they don't contribute the first dime. the result is that they abuse the system heavily. when i lived in england on the nhs, we also abused that system heavily, though i'd argue that when i did need it it didn't come through for me.

if you address these issues, the cost for medical fall dramatically as do insurance costs. the numbers of kids whose family could not afford this insurance would be more than adequately covered by charity hospitals
They weren't exactly dying in the street, but dying due to lack of care because they could be turned away from hospital doors.

Patient dumping was a common practice, thus the reason for the bill. That same thing would happen if the law was repealed.

This is what happens now.

One person can't pay. The hospital charges more to those with insurance to make up for the care they provided. Then the insurance rates go up. Then more people can't afford insurance.

The cycle is the reason our healthcare costs are so high, and its why obamacare has to stay in place if the EMTALA remains in place.

So, would you rather allow patient dumping, or would you rather make everyone have insurance.
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:08 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,204,597 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
They weren't exactly dying in the street, but dying due to lack of care because they could be turned away from hospital doors.

Patient dumping was a common practice, thus the reason for the bill. That same thing would happen if the law was repealed.

This is what happens now.

One person can't pay. The hospital charges more to those with insurance to make up for the care they provided. Then the insurance rates go up. Then more people can't afford insurance.

The cycle is the reason our healthcare costs are so high, and its why obamacare has to stay in place if the EMTALA remains in place.

So, would you rather allow patient dumping, or would you rather make everyone have insurance.
for a start it should be a state issue as per thread. some states like mass, will choose the romney/obamacare route and other states will choose something else. if individual states keep emtala, that should be their decision. besides, on the mandate, i'm conviced the scotus will strike it down because the act is blatantly unconstitutional
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,913,810 times
Reputation: 5888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
They weren't exactly dying in the street, but dying due to lack of care because they could be turned away from hospital doors.

Patient dumping was a common practice, thus the reason for the bill. That same thing would happen if the law was repealed.

This is what happens now.

One person can't pay. The hospital charges more to those with insurance to make up for the care they provided. Then the insurance rates go up. Then more people can't afford insurance.

The cycle is the reason our healthcare costs are so high, and its why obamacare has to stay in place if the EMTALA remains in place.

So, would you rather allow patient dumping, or would you rather make everyone have insurance.
I truly am confused by your posts. On one thread you state your opposition to the Fed Govt and how everything should be left up to states. You seem disappointed that the Fed Govt's powers were increased thru the post Civil War amendments, and yet you defend Obamacare here. You stated how you don't believe you should have to accept Fed laws you don't agree with. This gentleman doesn't agree with Obamacare, yet you are basically asking him to accept it as opposed to have people die in the streets. I'm confused.
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