Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We ALL live by the supply/demand of labor availability.. public employees should be no different..
Yes, public employees should be NO DIFFERENT - so WHY are you so insistant that they BE TREATED different? Public employees have the RIGHT to collective bargaining - so should public workers.
Oh don't be an idiot.
NO ONE is going to get big raises RIGHT NOW - except for those top (yes GREEDY) executives - but NO ONE is LOCKED into "cost of living only" raises FOREVER. As the economy improves raises will increase - in fact they ALREADY ARE (Most U.S. Employers Expect to Give Pay Raises in 2011).
So SHOW me where I claimed that workers raises are LOCKED UP by those "greedy" owners.
Still waiting....
Ken
And you have the nerve to call me an idiot..
Most employers expect to give raises EVERY YEAR.. I dont know where you work but if you arent getting payraises yearly I suggest you seek new employment or figure out why your employer doesnt value you as an employee..
Yes, public employees should be NO DIFFERENT - so WHY are you so insistant that they BE TREATED different? Public employees have the RIGHT to collective bargaining - so should public workers.
Ken
They arent.. Wisconsin just wants people to have the CHOICE to join a union. It just moves the state employees from the classification of a union shop to an open shop.. This is the SAME as the private sector..
What you want is SPECIAL exemptions for government employees to FORCE them to join a union..
States renegotate their office supply contracts consinstantly to get lower rates So what? Clearly you would admit that paying less saves money right? I mean seriously, you cant be this math challenged..
The economic conditions 3, 4, 5, 10, 20 years down the road is meaningless because under collective bargaining good years, the unions can demand more, bad years they can demand less.. But without collective bargaining they get what is given to them.. You keep wanting to go down the road and pretend the economic situtations of the state is unknown so therby reducing the ability to demand more is meaningless. Thats simply not true.. It reduces their ability to demand more than whatever they would have GOTTEN duing those years, regarldess of the fiscal stability at that time..
Again, for you math challenged folks
If the year is good, and the unions might have negotated a 5% payraise, this doesnt mean the state wont give them 4%.. i.e. a 1% savings
If the year is bad and the unions might have negotated a 3% payraise, this doesnt mean the state wont give them 2%.. Either case the result is a SAVINGS.. The amount of savings is unknown by either one of us, but even the union acknowledges this equates to less money..
The unions can't DEMAND ANYTHING. The NEGOTIATE for it - as does the STATE.
So again - why are the UNIONS being singled out and locked into a "cost of living only" pay raise rate WHEN NO ONE ELSE IS?
And while we're at it - why ONLY the unions that opposed Walker's ELECTION?
The unions can't DEMAND ANYTHING. The NEGOTIATE for it - as does the STATE.
So again - why are the UNIONS being singled out and locked into a "cost of living only" pay raise rate WHEN NO ONE ELSE IS?
And while we're at it - why ONLY the unions that opposed Walker's ELECTION?
Ken
Unions demand things all the time, when they don't get their demands met they strike and threaten those who don't comply with their demands. It's happening right now in WI and other places around the US.
And you have the nerve to call me an idiot..
Most employers expect to give raises EVERY YEAR.. I dont know where you work but if you arent getting payraises yearly I suggest you seek new employment or figure out why your employer doesnt value you as an employee..
Apparently you ARE an idiot - where did I say employers don't give raises EVERY YEAR? Employers DO typically give raises every year - and the SIZE of the raises is dependent upon things like: 1) the financial health of the company 2) The state of the labor market
So WHY should the unions be treated any differently? I don't see PRIVATE companies limiting employee raises to the cost of living - especially not INDEFINITELY.
So me WHERE that happens in the private sector and you maybe have a case for doing to the public sector.
They arent.. Wisconsin just wants people to have the CHOICE to join a union. It just moves the state employees from the classification of a union shop to an open shop.. This is the SAME as the private sector..
What you want is SPECIAL exemptions for government employees to FORCE them to join a union..
Oh, so NOW you change the subject. I NEVER discussed open or closed shop - the issue at question is WHY should the unions give up their collective bargaining rights (specifically their right to negoiate pay) - especially when OTHER UNIONS (ie the ones that SUPPORTED Walker's ELECTION) get to keep their rights?
Apparently you ARE an idiot - where did I say employers don't give raises EVERY YEAR? Employers DO typically give raises every year - and the SIZE of the raises is dependent upon things like: 1) the financial health of the company 2) The state of the labor market
So WHY should the unions be treated any differently? I don't see PRIVATE companies limiting employee raises to the cost of living - especially not INDEFINITELY.
So me WHERE that happens in the private sector and you maybe have a case for doing to the public sector.
Ken
If raises are given based on the financial health of the "company" and the state of the labor market public worker labor unions don't deserve any raise at all given the fact that their states are broke and there's so much labor on the market right now that they could all be easily replaced tomorrow.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
