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A black man thinking he's hated in America? This is the land of the free. You don't see Jews complaining for their ancestors being killed by Nazi's.
Actually, there are many Jews who still discuss the atrocities of the Holocaust. Why do you view discussing one's history as complaining? BTW....the Holocaust did not take place in the US. I don't know how Jews living in Germany feel about the Holocaust and whether or not they're still talking about it...it's easier to get over a terrible moment in one's history if they no longer live in the country where the acts were perpetrated.
Don't feel like you're mistreated in America. If you live in a place where black's are hated, then move elsewhere because most of the USA doesn't hate other races. Forgot about you ancestors being slaves, because that is NOW called an excuse for black people to blame their problems on.
So, basically you want me to forget about my ancestors and our history in this country? Why can I not reflect on how bad my ancestors had it and think about how far I've come? When a Black person talks about slavery, why is it always assumed that it is done to blame whites/seek reparations/play the victim? That argument is really worn out and lame.
Very few mid and high level dealers are white. Mexican is not the same as white American, and Mexicans supply everyone. Most middle men are black or Mexican. For every white connect you meet, you will meet 10 black dudes.
It's funny you mention Ricky Ross. Ricky Ross was black and he was buying his dope from Colombians and Nicaraguans, not white guys.
The largest consumer of drugs is whites because there's more of them, duh.
Also the majority of poor Mexicans are either pure Amerindian or a mix of European and Amerindian. poor black Mexicans are rare because black Mexicans are rare, period. They only constitute 1% of the Mexican population.
You just proved my point in the last post with the comment in bold. Mexicans drug cartels aren't Black. Mexican, Hispanic, Nicaraguan, Columbian are not races. That leaves Amerindian and European, so we'll just have to disagree on which of the two are supplying the drugs that end up in these neighborhoods.
Either way, once again, most of the drugs in America are being sold and consumed by whites buying from white drug dealers.
Why should a Black person on the other side of the country need to feel they should condemn someone who happens shares the same skin color in some other state? I condemn this horrible situation, but race has nothing to do with my condemnation since I feel no obligation towards these horrible perpetrators.
Also, what is with the "their community"? There is no "Black community", Blacks and non-Blacks need to stop saying that because it forces the rest of us to accept both positive and NEGATIVE stereotypes and generalizations based on nothing but skin color. Do you feel an obligation to a community of people of your race who live on the other side of the country? I thought we're all supposed to be Americans here, so it's your community too.
Freedom, the story which many of us are referencing has to do with a "community" of black people (literally, people living in a particular town where a crime occurred, who know each other, etc) who refuse to condemn the criminals who committed a heinous crime, and who, furthermore, went to the effort to gather in the townhall, invite an inflammatory speaker, and proceed to "defend the honor" of the criminals by disparaging the victim (who is a child). In this case, there is a black community and it is choosing to adhere to tribal loyalties rather than to stand for what is right.
Secondly, it may be that in your personal philosophy, you don't feel any obligation to someone who shares your skin color, but many people do (and many people on CD). There is a marked difference in the way white people of a society respond to news of a crime committed by a white person, and the way black people in a society respond to news of crime committed by a black person. I'm curious -- do you deny this, or do you agree this happens? It is something that bothers me. It does NOT mean that I assume all black people are responsible for the behavior of all other black people. However, I do not like to see black people springing to the defense of a black criminal who "lives on the other side of country" merely because he is black.
You have clearly condemned these criminals, rightly not because of their race but because of their crimes, but not all black people are willing to do that. There are black people who will stand by a black criminal ONLY BECAUSE he is black. That is what I take issue with. I hope that is clear. It has been so eye opening to me that black posters on CD cannot see this distinction in intention, the impulse to label a white person racist is so very strong.
Lastly, I have always felt it is disingenuous to speak of race as nothing more than skin color when it is obviously so much more complicated than melanin. There is sub culture as well as history, and these can result in very significant differences that go much deeper than skin color.
I appreciate your thoughts.
Last edited by chattypatty; 03-16-2011 at 10:20 PM..
Jews NEVER let people forget the Holocaust, and ALWAYS are quick to condemn anything that even tangentially seems anti-Semitic. It's hypocritical that no one judges them for it, I suppose it's because they don't use it as excuses for group or individual failures.
I agree that people who feel hated or hate America today should move if it's that bad. If I lived in pre-60s America I wouldn't sit and complain, I'd save money and run to Canada or the first country where I would be accepted. I've taken the approach of recognizing and learning history, yet moving forward without a chip on my shoulder, because this is still the best nation to live and it has been very good to me.
... Why can I not reflect on how bad my ancestors had it and think about how far I've come? When a Black person talks about slavery, why is it always assumed that it is done to blame whites/seek reparations/play the victim? That argument is really worn out and lame.
Barging in . . .
Cannot speak for others, but personally, and speaking as a Jew, I do think it's extremely important for blacks to know their heritage, to never forget slavery, and to teach their young the facts no matter how painful. When that knowledge is used to blame current day whites or play the victim, only then does it become destructive. Somewhat related, there is currently a lot of discussion among Jewish groups now about the over emphasis on the Holocaust in teaching young Jewish children about their heritage, as if Jews are only defined by their experience as victims. This is a valid point, nonetheless, no one would say we shouldn't teach our children what was done to our people.
Well, it's a fine line then, as there are people who take any discussion of the holocaust or slavery automatically as "throwing it in their face." The mere mention of it can illicit the infamous eye roll.
You just proved my point in the last post with the comment in bold. Mexicans drug cartels aren't Black. Mexican, Hispanic, Nicaraguan, Columbian are not races. That leaves Amerindian and European, so we'll just have to disagree on which of the two are supplying the drugs that end up in these neighborhoods.
Either way, once again, most of the drugs in America are being sold and consumed by whites buying from white drug dealers.
If you consider juan flores born and raised in Mexico City white than in your mind you are right, however in the real world you are wrong.
Freedom, the story which many of us are referencing has to do with a "community" of black people (literally, people living in a particular town where a crime occurred, who know each other, etc) who refuse to condemn the criminals who committed a heinous crime, and who, furthermore, went to the effort to gather in the townhall, invite an inflammatory speaker, and proceed to "defend the honor" of the criminals by disparaging the victim (who is a child). In this case, there is a black community and it is choosing to adhere to tribal loyalties rather than to stand for what is right.
Hi Patty, your question to this was answered in a later post to "Observation", post #99.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123
Good evening,
Based on your other posts, you live in the hood. Maybe your idea of what blacks defend are based on these type of people's opinions. Hood Blacks tend to defend criminals, since many of their friends and family have been criminals or caught up in the system. Politicians and TV news "attention seekers" who "represent" the hood districts are also defending them because they would be seen as selling out their base.
This is not the same opinion of positive Blacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty
Secondly, it may be that in your personal philosophy, you don't feel any obligation to someone who shares your skin color, but many people do (and many people on CD). There is a marked difference in the way white people of a society respond to news of a crime committed by a white person, and the way black people in a society respond to news of crime committed by a black person. I'm curious -- do you deny this, or do you agree this happens? It is something that bothers me. It does NOT mean that I assume all black people are responsible for the behavior of all other black people. However, I do not like to see black people springing to the defense of a black criminal who "lives on the other side of country" merely because he is black.
I do agree that I am in what seems to be a vocal minority, but see the post above. Thinking Blacks do not automatically jump to the defense of hoodlums, the problem is the people in the media who do this are the hood folks and politicians and "Black leaders" who make money and gain power through the hood folks since that's where the largest concentrations of Black people are. Positive Blacks generally are diluted in suburbs. I can somewhat understand why you seem to extrapolate that through all Blacks IF you don't have regular exposure to Blacks who are thinkers. I am aware of CD posters you are referring to, but I don't believe they would automatically defend these hoodlums' actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty
You have clearly condemned these criminals, rightly not because of their race but because of their crimes, but not all black people are willing to do that. There are black people who will stand by a black criminal ONLY BECAUSE he is black. That is what I take issue with. I hope that is clear. It has been so eye opening to me that black posters on CD cannot see this distinction in intention, the impulse to label a white person racist is so very strong.
I agree there are people who will, but I don't even believe even most CD posters you refer to would do so. I know there are some Blacks who would rather deflect the issue in hopes to avoid "Blacks as a group" look bad, so that may be what you're referring to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty
Lastly, I have always felt it is disingenuous to speak of race as nothing more than skin color when it is obviously so much more complicated than melanin. There is sub culture as well as history, and these can result in very significant differences that go much deeper than skin color.
I appreciate your thoughts.
Race really is nothing more than skin color. Black culture would not exist if we didn't maintain a pre-1960s society based on skin color. The subculture's basis is faulty, it's based on historical racism. Many things considered Black culture, even aspects I love, are a direct or tangential result of segregation and oppression. As a result, we have to challenge the nature and cause of it if we want to move forward as AMERICANS, even if it makes us uncomfortable.
To sum it up, if historical racism didn't happen, you and I would most likely have the same culture. So I cannot accept something created and forced upon my ancestors as a result of that racism, even if some of it is positive. Accepting the positives, means accepting the negatives too, and I'm not willing to do that. Placing myself into a group above the individual is against my libertarian beliefs.
Yes, the differences exist, but what is true is that people's differences disappear and merge into common goals when they assimilate amongst each other. It's difficult for that to happen as long as we keep encouraging things like "Black culture" "redneck culture" and "Stuff white people like". It sounds good for positive things, but is divisive for negatives that pop up. Let's just be Americans, who merge contributions from all of us and place less emphasis on our differences!
Cannot speak for others, but personally, and speaking as a Jew, I do think it's extremely important for blacks to know their heritage, to never forget slavery, and to teach their young the facts no matter how painful. When that knowledge is used to blame current day whites or play the victim, only then does it become destructive. Somewhat related, there is currently a lot of discussion among Jewish groups now about the over emphasis on the Holocaust in teaching young Jewish children about their heritage, as if Jews are only defined by their experience as victims. This is a valid point, nonetheless, no one would say we shouldn't teach our children what was done to our people.
I really think this argument is not as commonplace as many think. I grew up in the projects...there were many drug-dealers, thieves, addicts, etc. NOT ONE of them that I knew blamed their ills on how blacks had it as slaves. I just don't hear (and didn't hear) many blacks saying "Well, I'm doing bad because of slavery". They may say because of racism (which may or may not be true) or they may say something along the lines of the OP where they feel whites don't like them so they adopt an "eff them" attitude.
Do Jews use the Holocaust to blame current day whites or play the victim? This is almost never the assumption when the topic of their suffering is brought up, but it's almost sure to come up when slavery is discussed. It gets tiring.
If you consider juan flores born and raised in Mexico City white than in your mind you are right, however in the real world you are wrong.
Ok cool. Whether most Mexicans are or aren't considered Caucasian is off topic and not that important to the discussion so I'll just concede and move on.
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