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now were getting to it. spit it out...what exactly do you "deal" with everyday? if it is your job to protect something you don't believe in then you should look for a new job.
If it were only that simple. Fortunately the majority of my job does not require me to make sure some idiot spouting off isn't going to get punched. Mostly my job is rewarding and enjoyable.
J'aimeDesVilles, one might not be born in a country they prefer? That is a load of hogwash. Sure some countries are bad, but that is because the people there don't fight for it. Have pride in your homeland, defend it, and it will provide for you. If there is a government that is not good for the people or maybe there is a "famine". These are reasonable excuses, but only for so long.
A country is only what its countrymen make of it.
Monkeywrenching, I agree with you.
hothulamaui, no, we don't need to ban bars, booze or anything else.
I see that you recognize the difference between liking the "country," but not necessarily the government..... but the two things are often inextricably tied together, depending on what specifically one means by "country." There's country in a purely physical sense in terms of nature... the land, topography, weather, natural resources..... things pertaining to a countries abundance and beauty. And then there is "country" in the social context.... relating to people and the culture. The problem arises with the latter, as a large part of cultural attitudes are related to matters of governance.
One can certainly love the beauty of the physical beauty of the country they are in, and the abundance that that land may offer. One might even find the people somewhat agreeable to an extent, even though their political ideas might be exactly what you had in mind, especially if likewise in other countries, the peoples and governments are likewise not ones cup of tea...... but all of these things still entail reasons of some sort, and don't rely on blind patriotism.
People should not like the country they were born in, simply because they were born there. If they are to like it, there must be a reason for it.... even if its a crummy reason, at least its a reason. The capacity of human beings to reason better than other animals do demands a thought process which is a little bit more critical than, "I was born at X marks the spot, therefore, I shall have allegiance to spot X."
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In any case, if I actually believed you were promoting blind patriotism, which you probably did not intend to do (I think you perhaps did not clarify your original objection enough at the outset), then I would sarcastically reply thusly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fractured_kidult
I am tired of people bashing the country they live in, especially if born there.
(1) Oh noes.... criticism..... we can't have that.... "Off with their heads!" No dissent will be tolerated! You will believe the country your birth country is the greatest thing since sliced bread, no matter what country you live in.
Praise Iran, praise Columbia, praise Guatemala, praise Libya, praise Cuba, praise the United States, praise Germany, praise Canada, praise Somalia, praise Kenya, praise France. .... do not question.... just praise and worship the fact that you were by luck of the draw arbitrarily conceived at a particular GPS coordinate.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fractured_kidult
Stop abusing the system and leave.
(2) What abuse would that be? Words? Oh no, words and criticism.... heavens to Betsy... such abuse.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fractured_kidult
A person should have pride in their homeland. Whatever happened to that thing called national pride?
(3) See (5) , below.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fractured_kidult
If you don't like your country... MOVE OUT!
(4) See (6), below.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fractured_kidult
A scene from Braveheart pops into mind.
(5) It was a movie, to point out out the obvious, not to be taken too literally.
Or perhaps you misinterpreted the mythical protagonist characters motivation behind why he was really proud to be Scottish. Perhaps the reason he was so proud of Scottish was not for the mere fact that he was Scottish, but because there were myriad reasons behind why being Scottish was overwhelmingly better in his mind than being English.... and so it had nothing at all to do with being proud of Scottish for no other reason than that. And I would hope that was truly the case.
Or perhaps he was just another mindless idiot who believed in blind patriotism (I would not like to believe that was the case - but clearly such people exist in the world). The world has never had a shortage of such useful idiots who serve their State masters well when called upon to kill other people in wartime, and may be inclined to do so with much less question or critical thought as to the actions legitimacy, because their mentality revolves around a though process akin to..... "Ooga booga, me part of Inkadinka Tribe, we best tribe in whole flat world as far as eye can see.... we much better than Oompadoomap Tribe who live across river. Ooga booga.... me tribe want to go to war with them. Must kill all Oompadoompa Tribe members with big stick... must collect rocks to bang all Oompadoopa Tribe members upside head. I born here on leeward side of mountain.... that make me and Inkadinka Tribe better than them, as they were born on other side of river.... ooga booga...."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fractured_kidult
Honestly, why would you stay in a country you don't like?
(6) The fact that one country is a steaming pile of dog poop does not preclude other countries from likewise being viewed as big, stinky piles of dog crap (which may be as big, or bigger and smellier than the first).
The fact that one country is a slightly less stinky pile of dog poop than the other dog pile does not make it worthy of praise. And certainly the fact that you were born around X,Y coordinate such that you have gotten used to the stench around that particular location does not mean you should blindly think it a great thing, for not other reason than being born there.
People who abide by that line of logic tend to have low standards in life and may not be overly inclined to think outside the box in expecting a superior products. They have gotten used to the idea of accepting a world of mediocrity and substandard products and services, and thinking we should praise and admire that mediocrity just because it is supposedly "our" mediocrity.... and by golly.... lets all have pride in our mediocrity.
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 03-16-2011 at 04:10 PM..
Seriously? Hate is not speech. I only agree with free speech when it is well informed and has a point. Bashing your homeland is not right. If you don't like something move away from it or dont do it.
I have nothing against people who want to express their free speech. However, certain things should not be allowed in a public forum. If you want to speak about something, instead of looking like an idiot on the street with a sign or bull horn, you bring it into an organized fashion with a conference or lecture?
I fought for your right to be an idiot as did my father before me. So if I had to do it again I would. Your idea of freedom differs from mine. I only agree with free speech when it agrees with my viewpoint does not sound like the country that I currently live in or would want to live in.
American still is the greatest country on earth, in spite of the ineptness of our current government.
Obama would much prefer that we didn't view this country as exceptional, even though it is. It is exceptional because its people are exceptional and because it worked to become that at home and abroad. Not even Obama can take that away from us.
He doesn't appear to be a man who appreciates patriotism; perhaps it's because true patriots are difficult to control.
One can have deep love and devotion to one's country and still recognize that it is not perfect, and work to make it better. There's a big difference between constructive assessment -even critique - and just plain whining. And it's not hard to recognize which is which.
American still is the greatest country on earth, in spite of the ineptness of our current government.
Obama would much prefer that we didn't view this country as exceptional, even though it is. It is exceptional because its people are exceptional and because it worked to become that at home and abroad. Not even Obama can take that away from us.
He doesn't appear to be a man who appreciates patriotism; perhaps it's because true patriots are difficult to control.
One can have deep love and devotion to one's country and still recognize that it is not perfect, and work to make it better. There's a big difference between constructive assessment -even critique - and just plain whining. And it's not hard to recognize which is which.
Are there any other countries that think they are exceptional or is it just the United States?
Why are we so exceptional, is it the water we drink. Or do we naturally have a higher IQ than other countries. If it's the IQ, why are all our jobs going to other countries? Especially the science/engineering jobs while we are left serving jobs at fast food restaurants.
Screw Patriotism, that don't put food on the table and has historically been used as a tool against the ignorant.
Are there any other countries that think they are exceptional or is it just the United States?
Why are we so exceptional, is it the water we drink. Or do we naturally have a higher IQ than other countries. If it's the IQ, why are all our jobs going to other countries? Especially the science/engineering jobs while we are left serving jobs at fast food restaurants.
Screw Patriotism, that don't put food on the table and has historically been used as a tool against the ignorant.
Well -- there is no other nation on this planet that has as many immigrants pouring into it as the USA. In fact people would rather come to the USA than fix their own countries up, bring down dictators, reform their own laws. They would rather live illegally in the USA than legally in their own countries. Millions and millions of immigrants can't be all wrong.
What's more, very few Americans leave the USA to live permanently somewhere else.
I am tired of people bashing the country they live in, especially if born there. If you don't like your country... MOVE OUT! Stop abusing the system and leave. A person should have pride in their homeland. Whatever happened to that thing called national pride? A scene from Braveheart pops into mind. Honestly, why would you stay in a country you don't like?
I'm proud of my homeland. It's the ozark mountains.
I am tired of people bashing the country they live in, especially if born there. If you don't like your country... MOVE OUT! Stop abusing the system and leave. A person should have pride in their homeland. Whatever happened to that thing called national pride? A scene from Braveheart pops into mind. Honestly, why would you stay in a country you don't like?
You know anyone who uses one of the most atrociously inaccurate movies as a basis for an argument, the argument was lost at its inception.
Seriously? Hate is not speech. I only agree with free speech when it is well informed and has a point. Bashing your homeland is not right. If you don't like something move away from it or dont do it.
I have nothing against people who want to express their free speech. However, certain things should not be allowed in a public forum. If you want to speak about something, instead of looking like an idiot on the street with a sign or bull horn, you bring it into an organized fashion with a conference or lecture?
I will respond more to everyone when I am off work. I am watching something meraculous happening right now. Some nut job was spouting off his religion, condemning everyone to he!!. It was pretty entertaining. Until, a pastor I know walked up to him, said something in his ear that brought him to tears. Now, the man that was screaming is walking around with the pastor I know, they are quietly approaching people and simply asking if they would pray for the people in japan and then sharing a word or two about Christ.
Wish I knew what was said.
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