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I think you're one of those who believes in the power of guts more than in the power of the brain.
What do you suggest, the USA invade North Korea?
I believe in diplomacy but when diplomacy fails it's time to back it up. A dictator or country gets one shot at diplomacy.....if they don't take it too bad. That's the problem.............America has grown weak.....along with much of western europe. We talk tough and sanction the crap out of a country. But when that yields no results what do we do? We should have taken out the leadership of NK and bombed that country 20-30 years ago.. Now they have nuclear weapons. The same thing is going to happen with Iran. The US never learns from its mistakes. We have a reactive government that cannot get anything significant done on a diplomatic and foreign policy level anymore. Look at our trade war with China. Look at Iran. Look at Mexico. Look at North Korea. US foreign policy has become a joke. We are off bombing tin pot dictators while real threats are staring us right in the face. But with leaders like Clinton, Bush and Obama what do you expect?
You seem to have forgotten our Liberal President who's in charge?!?!
If Obama campaigned that he would continue both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, possibly enter a 3rd war and keep Gitmo open, do you really think he would have ever been elected in the first place ???
Nice try at defending the Liberal President who's in charge by blaming the Right for the very thing Obama and the Left are now engaged in.
I believe in diplomacy but when diplomacy fails it's time to back it up. A dictator or country gets one shot at diplomacy.....if they don't take it too bad. That's the problem.............America has grown weak.....along with much of western europe. We talk tough and sanction the crap out of a country. But when that yields no results what do we do? We should have taken out the leadership of NK and bombed that country 20-30 years ago.. Now they have nuclear weapons. The same thing is going to happen with Iran. The US never learns from its mistakes. We have a reactive government that cannot get anything significant done on a diplomatic and foreign policy level anymore. Look at our trade war with China. Look at Iran. Look at Mexico. Look at North Korea. US foreign policy has become a joke. We are off bombing tin pot dictators while real threats are staring us right in the face. But with leaders like Clinton, Bush and Obama what do you expect?
Well, I will take weak over stupid ANY DAY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antarez
YIf Obama campaigned that he would continue both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, possibly enter a 3rd war and keep Gitmo open, do you really think he would have ever been elected in the first place ???
I'm trying to get a handle on the conservatives in this board. Some say, Obama is weak. Others say he is promoting a war. I can safely assume you're on the second boat, and yet would never counter the arguments made by folks riding the first? Perhaps your opinion revolves only around the President and "the liberals", nothing to do with issue at hand and much less contributing with a positive point on the subject?
You seem to have forgotten our Liberal President who's in charge?!?!
If Obama campaigned that he would continue both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, possibly enter a 3rd war and keep Gitmo open, do you really think he would have ever been elected in the first place ???
Nice try at defending the Liberal President who's in charge by blaming the Right for the very thing Obama and the Left are now engaged in.
Like Einstein says....make up your mind. I have already done my mea culpa's in regard to Obama by openly admitting that he's too damn hawkish for my taste and that i'm extremely disappointed in his behavior as the Commander in Chief. I've also admitted in previous threads that i fooled myself into believing that he was a dove even though i knew in the back of my mind that he wasn't. I'm a sucker. I admit it.
Now it's your turn. Do you love wars or not? You conservatives love strength and belligerence so long as it's a conservative president at the helm. But now, you don't like it for some strange reason. Now, you all want to pretend that you're a bunch of doves even though during the Bush Administration, there wasn't enough blood on the planet to satiate your thirst. Had Bush been given more time, you all wanted war with Iran.
So what's your malfunction here? Seems to me that the President can't satisfy you guys no matter what he does. Why not just come out and say that you hate the man regardless of his actions (good or bad) and NOTHING he does can placate you. If you'd all do that, we could cut down on the amount of stupid threads....and moreover, we could cut down on silly comments on those silly threads.
I am so tired of the US being involved in the Arab World.
Seriously let the Europeans handle it. Its right there on their doorstep.
Well then tell your fellow Americans to quit using so much damn plastic and gas guzzling SUVs. Tell them to support public transportation....tell them to quit living in the suburbs and start redeveloping the urban areas. As long as Americans keep demanding cheap strawberries we will have cheap illegal stoop labor. Same goes for oil. As long as we keep mindlessly consuming **** we dont need........we will fight and die for cheap middle eastern oil. People can talk about alternative energy till the mad cows come home.........we can lament about middle eastern oil and our reliance on it...........we can label those who don't agree with our views liberals.......conservatives........capitalists... ..socialists...........we can argue about the safety of nuclear power.............BUT IN THE END..........we are 1% of the world's population consuming 25% of the worlds resources.......our LIFESTYLE and way of life is COMPLETELY unsustainable regardless of any of the above. America and Americans need to simplify our lives and our country. We cannot keep up the rate of consumption we have currently without serious wars and economic meltdown. We consume too damn much...........we are in too damn much of a hurry..........we are too damn stressed because of it. America needs a big fat do over. But it will never happen. It has never happened in the history of mankind. Civilizations burn out and crumble. It's inevitable.
I believe in diplomacy but when diplomacy fails it's time to back it up. A dictator or country gets one shot at diplomacy.....if they don't take it too bad. That's the problem.............America has grown weak.....along with much of western europe. We talk tough and sanction the crap out of a country. But when that yields no results what do we do? We should have taken out the leadership of NK and bombed that country 20-30 years ago.. Now they have nuclear weapons. The same thing is going to happen with Iran. The US never learns from its mistakes. We have a reactive government that cannot get anything significant done on a diplomatic and foreign policy level anymore. Look at our trade war with China. Look at Iran. Look at Mexico. Look at North Korea. US foreign policy has become a joke. We are off bombing tin pot dictators while real threats are staring us right in the face. But with leaders like Clinton, Bush and Obama what do you expect?
LOL @ "take out NK and Iran"...as if it's that easy.
Maybe 20-30 years ago, the N. Koreans didn't want to be taken out, just like they don't want to be taken out now. Think they're just going to roll over? Was Ronald Reagan ready to lose a few hundred thousand in a war on the Korean Peninsula? Please....
And Iran? Take them out how? We can't even subdue Iraq, which has a third of the Iranian population. U.S. troops on the ground would get eaten the hell up in a protracted guerilla war that would lead to our humiliating defeat. Vietnam would look like a Girl Scout campout compared to an Iranian conflict.
There is a such thing as "limits of power." Seems like a lot of hardheads don't get that.
I believe in diplomacy but when diplomacy fails it's time to back it up. A dictator or country gets one shot at diplomacy.....if they don't take it too bad. That's the problem.............America has grown weak.....along with much of western europe. We talk tough and sanction the crap out of a country. But when that yields no results what do we do? We should have taken out the leadership of NK and bombed that country 20-30 years ago.. Now they have nuclear weapons. The same thing is going to happen with Iran. The US never learns from its mistakes. We have a reactive government that cannot get anything significant done on a diplomatic and foreign policy level anymore. Look at our trade war with China. Look at Iran. Look at Mexico. Look at North Korea. US foreign policy has become a joke. We are off bombing tin pot dictators while real threats are staring us right in the face. But with leaders like Clinton, Bush and Obama what do you expect?
Problem is, you cannot just bomb everyone you don't like if they refuse to play nice. In fact, you can only bomb those countries that are too weak to stand up for themselves, who do not have some kind of leverage (economic or otherwise) or who do not have powerful friends.
Lets look at your examples:
Iran ... problem is that they have economic leverage through their ability to damage the Arabian oil fields and close the Straits of Hormuz. They can also make our life very difficult in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
China ... they have both economic and military leverage. Not a fight we can be sure of winning.
Mexico ... not sure what bombing would do for us there but I am open to suggestions.
North Korea ... last time we got involved in a war there the Chinese intervened. Not a good idea really.
It sound good to talk tough but the real world is just a bit more complicated. Foreign policy actions do have consequences. Fortunately, this president seems to understand that.
Well then tell your fellow Americans to quit using so much damn plastic and gas guzzling SUVs. Tell them to support public transportation....tell them to quit living in the suburbs and start redeveloping the urban areas. As long as Americans keep demanding cheap strawberries we will have cheap illegal stoop labor. Same goes for oil. As long as we keep mindlessly consuming **** we dont need........we will fight and die for cheap middle eastern oil. People can talk about alternative energy till the mad cows come home.........we can lament about middle eastern oil and our reliance on it...........we can label those who don't agree with our views liberals.......conservatives........capitalists... ..socialists...........we can argue about the safety of nuclear power.............BUT IN THE END..........we are 1% of the world's population consuming 25% of the worlds resources.......our LIFESTYLE and way of life is COMPLETELY unsustainable regardless of any of the above. America and Americans need to simplify our lives and our country. We cannot keep up the rate of consumption we have currently without serious wars and economic meltdown. We consume too damn much...........we are in too damn much of a hurry..........we are too damn stressed because of it. America needs a big fat do over. But it will never happen. It has never happened in the history of mankind. Civilizations burn out and crumble. It's inevitable.
Now you're making some sense!
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