Donald Trump - The Latest Birther.........And all other Birther Topics (FBI, FBI)

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by bluesjuke

When did Obama live in Connecticut?

First of all, it could have been a clerical error when the application was entered into records (the zip code from the application may have been transposed). And also, Obama's father lived in Connecticut for a time, and he could have applied for the SSN on behalf of his son. There are numerous, rational explanations for the SSN to indicate a Connecticut origin. The idea that the social security administration is involved in some conspiratorial plot is completely irrational.

[bc42gb43]

Originally Posted by BucsLose

I believe Obama was born here, however, is it true or not about him spending a million or two in court to keep from having to show the original?

It's not true.

WND has occasionally hinted that "as much as two million" has been spent on this. This claim then gets bounced around to a variety of sites that are even less cautious in their reporting.

WND bases their claim on the fact that FEC reports filed by the Obama campaign have showed that they have paid more than a million dollars to the law firm Perkins Coie over the past few years. In a couple of birther cases, an attorney from Perkins Coie have filed motions, and in one case, wrote a letter to a birther plaintiff stating that they would seek sanctions for their frivolous suit.

For this "up to two million" claim to be remotely true, the payments to Perkins would have had to go entirely to fighting those two suits. This makes no sense when you think about it. The Obama campaign was a massive organization, raising hundreds of millions of dollars and having active operations in all 57 states (). Every major presidential campaign maintains outside counsel. There are many issues for a campaign to deal with, including filing FEC reports, rents and leases of campaign offices, hiring staffers, compliance with 50 states' election laws, and many other issues all of which may require legal advice or drafting of legal documents.

For WND to look at payments by the Obama campaign to Perkins Coie of over a million dollars and then to conclude they spent over a million dollars on birther suits is like finding out that somebody spent $100 at McDonalds, and concluding on that basis alone that somebody spent $100 on their McFlurries. It makes no sense.

[brien51]

[quote=Jill61;18628297]No you don't.
quote]

Maybe you don't want to see the student loan applications, but if they were Government Guaranteed Student Loans, I do have the right to see the applications and the paperwork since I am a taxpayer and I guaranteed those loans. Because YOU say I don't have the right mean nothing, nada zero.

I pay for the defaults, so I have the right to see the applications. Since there have been investigations of Gov't guaranteed loans, it falls under the FOI Act and thus the loans are subject to public scrutiny.

So you can think I don't thave the right all you want but you are flat out wrong.

Fraud and Abuse in Federal Programs | Downsizing the Federal Government

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Student Loans

Federal student-aid programs have long been subject to fraud and abuse. The three main culprits are students and their families, educational institutions, and lending companies. It is difficult to stop the cheating in student loan programs because they “are large, complex, and inherently risky,” according to the Inspector General of the Department of Education.37 Federal student loan programs involve more than 6,000 postsecondary institutions and more than 3,000 lenders.
Students and their families cheat aid programs by falsely reporting their income level and other items in order to garner larger benefits. With the Pell college grant program, for example, this type of fraud costs taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars per year.38 Another abuse is that many students simply decide not to pay back their federal student loans. In 2001, the GAO found that there were more than $20 billion of student loans in default.39
Educational institutions often pilfer money meant for students. Under most student loan and grant programs, federal aid is sent to thousands of educational institutions, which are supposed to distribute it to eligible students. However, that distribution system has attracted swarms of shady schools and administrators over the decades that pocket the federal money at the expense of students and taxpayers.
A string of scandals in the early 1990s made clear the magnitude of the problem. One scandal regarded the trade school American Career Training Corporation in Florida. The school recruited new “students” at housing projects and helped them take out loans.40 The school owners received tens of millions of dollars in federally guaranteed student loans, and simply pocketed it. Another scheme involved 21 Jewish schools in New York State that used millions of dollars in Pell grants to line their pockets while spending little on education.41 Yet another scandal at the time involved owners of Advanced Business College in Puerto Rico, who used Pell grants to buy $3 million worth of sports cars and real estate for themselves.
A Senate investigation in 1991 found that student loan programs were “plagued with fraud and abuse at every level,” which cost taxpayers billions of dollars.42 The investigation accused the Department of Education of “gross mismanagement, ineptitude, and neglect,” finding that it had a “dismal record” of combating loan abuses.43 Losses from the student loan program totaled an enormous $13 billion between 1983 and 1990. In 1994, the department admitted that it was losing a staggering $3 billion or more annually to waste, fraud, and loan defaults. Education Secretary Richard Riley called the department’s oversight “worse than lax.”44
Today, fraud and abuse may have been reduced from the extraordinarily high levels of the 1980s and 1990s, but there are still large amounts of waste. In 2002, a GAO investigation revealed how easy it was to scam the student loan programs by simply sending in applications under fake student names.45 In 2005, an investigation found that owners of a company called the CSC Institute stole $4.3 million of the $13 million it received in Pell grants.46 The GAO currently estimates that taxpayers lose more than $1 billion a year to fraud and abuse in student aid programs.47
A new scandal involving financial institutions garnering excessively high profits from student loans has rocked the student-aid industry in recent years. Under the Federal Family Education Loan Program, dozens of loan originators figured out how to earn a 9.5 percent guaranteed return from the government, even though market interest rates have been much lower. Lenders have been able to earn billions of dollars at taxpayer expense. In response, some policymakers argue that private lenders should be cut out of the federal student loan process, and that all lending ought to flow directly from the Department of Education. But the department has been a terrible financial manager of its aid programs, including its direct-loan programs. Thus, the best reform would be to completely terminate the federal role in student aid, and leave the activity to market-based private lending and to charitable organizations.
In 2007, Secretary of Education, Margaret Spellings, testified to Congress that “federal student aid is crying out for reform. The system is redundant, it’s Byzantine, and it’s broken. In fact, it’s often more difficult for students to get aid than it is for bad actors to game the system.”48 She’s right, but the system should be ended, not reformed.

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[bc42gb43]

Originally Posted by brien51

Maybe you don't want to see the student loan applications, but if they were Government Guaranteed Student Loans, I do have the right to see the applications and the paperwork since I am a taxpayer and I guaranteed those loans. Because YOU say I don't have the right mean nothing, nada zero.

I pay for the defaults, so I have the right to see the applications. Since there have been investigations of Gov't guaranteed loans, it falls under the FOI Act and thus the loans are subject to public scrutiny.

So you can think I don't thave the right all you want but you are flat out wrong.

I'm sorry, but the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), 20 U.S.C. § 1232, protects the privacy of students' educational records.

You're absolutely right that for a long time the student loan industry has been in bad need of reform, and some reform did come last year. The loan applications of individual students, however, remain confidential under federal law and not subject to FOIA.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by brien51

Maybe you don't want to see the student loan applications, but if they were Government Guaranteed Student Loans, I do have the right to see the applications and the paperwork since I am a taxpayer and I guaranteed those loans. Because YOU say I don't have the right mean nothing, nada zero.

I pay for the defaults, so I have the right to see the applications. Since there have been investigations of Gov't guaranteed loans, it falls under the FOI Act and thus the loans are subject to public scrutiny.

So you can think I don't thave the right all you want but you are flat out wrong.

Fraud and Abuse in Federal Programs | Downsizing the Federal Government



</H4>

You don't have the right.

You have the right to government administration records, but personal and confidential information on individual applications does not fall under the FOIA.

Moreover, you don't have access to information that no longer exists. When you get a student loan, you don't apply to the government for that loan. You apply to your bank. The bank determines if you qualify. And while you owe on that loan, the bank that holds your note will keep that file, but when you've paid off that loan, they will not keep hard copies of that paperwork indefinitely. You want documents that were probably destroyed at least a decade ago. To provide fodder for an insane conspiracy theory that has NEVER been articulated clearly.

[brien51]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

Where the heck do you think those loan applications are?

I'm younger than Obama, and I certainly don't have copies of my loan applications. And wouldn't begin to know where to find them, since the bank I originally secured the loan from is long since gone, the bank that bought my loan, gone, and I would think since I'd paid the loan off, there was no reason not to shred those documents long, long ago.

If they were Government backed loans, there are records both with the Banking institutions of the state in which he applied, and also lodged with the institutions he used them to attend, like Columbia and Harvard. The loans copies are there, they refuse to release them. If I had the time and the inclination, I would file the FOI for them but I really don't care all that much because this, and almost every government before his, are as crooked as a dog's hind leg, so you people who think this guy is the second coming of Jesus have your heads up your rearends.


Here is a list of documents PBO refuses to release:

List Of Records Obama Refuses To Release | Right Soup

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List Of Records Obama Refuses To Release

Actual long-form birth certificate (NOT an easily-forged electronic copy of a short-form document that is not even officially accepted in Hawaii)
Passport files
University of Chicago Law School scholarly articles
Harvard Law Review articles
Harvard Law School records
Columbia University records
Columbia University senior thesis, “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament”
Occidental College records, including financial aid that he may have received
Punahou School records, where Mr. Obama attended from the fifth grade until he finished high school
Noelani Elementary School records, where Barack Obama attended kindergarten (according to the Hawaii Department of Education, students must submit a birth certificate to register — but parents may bring a passport or student visa if the child is from a foreign country)
Complete files and schedules of his years as an Illinois state senator from 1997 to 2004
Obama’s client list from during his time in private practice with the Chicago law firm of Davis, Miner, Barnhill and Gallard
Illinois State Bar Association records
Baptism records
Obama/Dunham marriage license
Obama/Dunham divorce documents
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license
Soetero/Dunham Adoption records


The non-issuance of the Occidental College records is especially pertinent. The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) served officials at Occidental College with a subpoena to produce records concerning Barack Obama’s attendance there during the 1980’s, because those records could document whether he was attending as a foreign national. Obama attended Occidental on a Fulbright scholarship — financial aid that is reserved for foreign students.



It's time to come clean and release the records concerning the Fulbright Scholarship to begin with here

Here is an interesting site that raises many questions about his education.. I could care less about his BC because that is waterover the dam. Even if it was proved tomorrow he was a foreigner, he would continue to serve out his term. He would just be pre-empted from running again.

I am more concerned if he committed fraud by lying on his loans, or even if he misrepresented himself as a foreigner, on applications by stating he was a foreign student. That is an impeachable offense since it is a felony to lie on any federal document.

Barack Obama's Education


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[Boompa]

Trump-Taitz 2012

[brien51]

Originally Posted by case44

If nothing else, he's calling our attention to something that may need to be looked at again. There are some things Barry is hiding from us, and we're all on a need-to-know basis.

Some things? Here is the list:

List Of Records Obama Refuses To Release | Right Soup

<H2>List Of Records Obama Refuses To Release

Actual long-form birth certificate (NOT an easily-forged electronic copy of a short-form document that is not even officially accepted in Hawaii)
Passport files
University of Chicago Law School scholarly articles
Harvard Law Review articles
Harvard Law School records
Columbia University records
Columbia University senior thesis, “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament”
Occidental College records, including financial aid that he may have received
Punahou School records, where Mr. Obama attended from the fifth grade until he finished high school
Noelani Elementary School records, where Barack Obama attended kindergarten (according to the Hawaii Department of Education, students must submit a birth certificate to register — but parents may bring a passport or student visa if the child is from a foreign country)
Complete files and schedules of his years as an Illinois state senator from 1997 to 2004
Obama’s client list from during his time in private practice with the Chicago law firm of Davis, Miner, Barnhill and Gallard
Illinois State Bar Association records
Baptism records
Obama/Dunham marriage license
Obama/Dunham divorce documents
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license
Soetero/Dunham Adoption records


The non-issuance of the Occidental College records is especially pertinent. The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) served officials at Occidental College with a subpoena to produce records concerning Barack Obama’s attendance there during the 1980’s, because those records could document whether he was attending as a foreign national. Obama attended Occidental on a Fulbright scholarship — financial aid that is reserved for foreign students.

</H2>

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by brien51

If they were Government backed loans, there are records both with the Banking institutions of the state in which he applied, and also lodged with the institutions he used them to attend, like Columbia and Harvard. The loans copies are there, they refuse to release them. If I had the time and the inclination, I would file the FOI for them but I really don't care all that much because this, and almost every government before his, are as crooked as a dog's hind leg, so you people who think this guy is the second coming of Jesus have your heads up your rearends.


Here is a list of documents PBO refuses to release:

List Of Records Obama Refuses To Release | Right Soup

<H2> <H2>

Here is an interesting site that raises many questions about his education.. I could care less about his BC because that is waterover the dam. Even if it was proved tomorrow he was a foreigner, he would continue to serve out his term. He would just be pre-empted from running again.

I am more concerned if he committed fraud by lying on his loans, or even if he misrepresented himself as a foreigner, on applications by stating he was a foreign student. That is an impeachable offense since it is a felony to lie on any federal document.

Barack Obama's Education


</H2></H2>

I don't know where you get your information. But at the time Obama attended school, no, the institutions did not have copies of the loan applications. I know this, because I actually worked for financial aid offices at a private college in roughly the same time period, and I also had a guaranteed student loan. So you are grossly mistaken in your assumptions. Unless the student applied through the school, which was not common at that time, the school did not have applications, not to loan applications, not to scholarship applications. They had information about the awards and loan amounts. Not the applications.

[bc42gb43]

Originally Posted by brien51

If they were Government backed loans, there are records both with the Banking institutions of the state in which he applied, and also lodged with the institutions he used them to attend, like Columbia and Harvard. The loans copies are there, they refuse to release them. If I had the time and the inclination, I would file the FOI for them but I really don't care all that much because this, and almost every government before his, are as crooked as a dog's hind leg, so you people who think this guy is the second coming of Jesus have your heads up your rearends.

Again, student loan applications are protected from disclosure by FERPA. I don't think Obama is the second coming of Jesus or even all that good of a President, I just don't care for birthers and their anti-American agenda, their total lack of understanding of the Constitution and federal law.

Here is a list of documents PBO refuses to release:

If I told you right now that I could give you links to show you President Obama's passport, an article he penned while President of the Harvard Law Review, his Illinois State Bar record, and tell you that Obama never wrote an article while teaching at Chicago Law, would you believe me when I say the rest of your list isn't worth the birther site you copypasta'd from?

Obama attended Occidental on a Fulbright scholarship — financial aid that is reserved for foreign students.

Please provide the slightest bit of support for this assertion that Obama attended on a Fulbright Scholarship. Are you going to quote that April Fool's prank like every other gullible birther?