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Old 03-21-2011, 07:56 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post
Could be in some cases but it can also be due to the environment such as school, friends a few bad experiences and so forth.
Who’s to say? Maybe Johnny got beat down by a different race for years while he was a kid in school, now Johnny doesn’t like anyone of that race, is he wrong? Yeah he is but then again it’s not really his fault he was a victim of his environment..
In this case, I have a question. I was beaten down by alot of White kids. Why don't I hate White people? One could argue it would be natural for me to hate White people, but for some reason, I don't.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:36 PM
 
3,004 posts, read 3,879,591 times
Reputation: 2028
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I think something this thread is ignoring is the idea that racism comes in one flavor. Most racists are not the extreme type found in the movies. In fact, I would say most racists aren't even aware they are racist. They would never use the N word and are not against Civil Rights. Their racism is more subtle. While they don't believe in saying racial epithets and denying civil rights, they are not exactly thrilled about certain races living in their neighborhood and dating their children. They don't see that as racism. That's the type of racism you see today.
Blacks are the first to resist having their children marry white people. If you deny that truth, then I'll have to doubt your story that you ever lived in the south and knew any black people at all.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,953 posts, read 22,057,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob The Builder View Post
Yup. They learn it from their folks and other adults and then when no one stops them or when their little buddies think its funny, it blossoms into full racist behavior.
No racists in my family, our parents raised us to respect other people.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:39 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty View Post
Blacks are the first to resist having their children marry white people. If you deny that truth, then I'll have to doubt your story that you ever lived in the south and knew any black people at all.
I have lived in the South and have seen both sides of it. I know of some White parents who would disown their children for even dating Black people. I live in Georgia and I see some racial tensions on both sides.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,856 posts, read 8,179,887 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Why don't you invest all that time and energy in updating your mindset instead of trying to justify something outdated?

Since you have mentioned the civil rights movement repeatedly, I think its goal is to undo unjust gaps rooted in the past. There is no point in lamenting the slight favoring of minorities at the expense of the incumbents today when you compare what the former had to endure in the past. I think it will take until at least 2050 or maybe even 2100 until the active promotion of minorities, especially blacks, is no longer necessary.
Update my mindset? I have radically updated my mindset over the past two years. In fact, I was one of the largest supporters of Obama in 2008, watched his 2004 keynote address several times(you should watch it, I used to have it on my Iphone). The words of hope for the future, the idea that racism could be a thing of the past, and the prospect of the first black president were all jumping through my head for the longest time.

Two years ago I would have been much like yourself, looking at the world how I would like it to be, the way I dreamt it to be, but not the way it is. Two years ago I was big government. I was for not only an expansion of healthcare, I would have easily gone for the whole package, single-payer. I believed so profoundly in Unions(which I had been employed in and around for several years prior to that), that I actually believed the reason we avoided communism was directly related to unions.

It amazes me how much my view of the world has changed, that I often reflect on how exactly it happened. How my unwavering optimism for the future has waned into severe reality-induced pessimism.

To understand it, you would have to look at a chronology of events. Beginning with my wanting to move to California, in which I searched on these forums for information about where someone might move in the LA or San Diego areas that wasn't crime laden. If you ever make that kind of search in any metropolitan area, you will realize the easier thing to do is to look at racial makeup of an area. That is the best indicator of a nice place to live and what isn't a nice place to live.

I suffer from depression, so happiness is important to me. I was doing some research on the "happiest countries in the world". You know, where there aren't all the issues we face all day every day in America(such as racism). A country that isn't in practically perpetual wars, worrying every day about terrorist attacks, and getting our junk touched by TSA agents. When it comes to happy countries, it seems that small, homogeneous countries are by far the happiest. The vast majority of those countries are in Europe. And all of the countries are overwhelmingly white.

And you know, me being a strong supporter of healthcare reform, energy reform, and foreign policy reform. I wondered, why can't we be more like Europe? Why can't we be as happy as all those small countries in Europe? What is it that they do that we don't do?

About that time was the long debate about healthcare reform in this country, and the subsequent challenges to the healthcare reform that has passed. And after watching the news, looking at all sides of the argument. All I ever heard was people claiming racism, people talking about welfare, talking about entitlements and handouts. Which carried on to immigration reform and illegals being able to obtain healthcare under the laws. I realized that, racism was not going away anytime soon, that it almost feels like it has gotten worse since Obama was elected. And that racism, which is an inherent part of humanity, is holding us back from being a more unified group of people. This country is built on individualism, and diversity is actually driving us further apart not pulling us together. And that the only way that we can really be happy, is if we attempted to narrow the amount of diversity that exists. Basically, I feel like our best chances of happiness are to live in small, homogeneous nations. Where we would tend to agree on more things, where we would more identify with each as part of a group and not as us vs them. And it would help to prevent our constant abuse of military power.

Where California didn't have to worry about conservatives coming into power and passing laws it didn't agree with. Where Texas didn't have to worry about liberals and the courts trying to shove its ideology down its throat.

At that time, you still had the discussion about Texas wanting to secede from the country, with the governor Rick Perry. And I began thinking that secession might be the best approach to solve this issue. But most people I talked to about secession were very fearful of the idea. That would mean Texas would be in another country? All the people that live in Texas or in other parts of the country, would be sort of "cut off" from each other? That just cannot happen.

The funny thing is, the solution to this problem should have been so blatantly obvious to anyone with any knowledge of American history and principles, that I don't know how I could have missed it. The framework for such a conglomerate of individual nations already exists, it is in the basic structure of our own nation. That was its original intent, to allow a number of small nations to peacefully trade and traverse each other. To provide for a common defense to help resist foreign influence. If only this Republican form of government could be held in place, and to not overtake the sovereignty of the states....

So what happened to this country? What turned it from "these United States" to "the United States". What has destroyed our regional identities. Our individual cultures, and the real diversity of this country? Why do we allow a single entity in the Congress to have almost absolute dominion over our lives? Why do we allow unelected supreme court judges to have control over our morality? What is it that has completely destroyed the very nature of our republic?

The simple answer is, the Civil War. The Civil War was a tragedy in our history, an utterly avoidable war. If you believe it was about slavery, you are only half right. It was about state sovereignty, slavery was just the issue of the day, there were many other issues that almost caused a Civil War(such as the Alien and sedition acts, and tariffs). If another Civil War happened over the healthcare reform law, you might remark it was about healthcare reform, but the truth is, it is about individual and state sovereignty. Does the federal government have the constitutional authority to pass such a law?

Most states don't dare defy the federal government, or they might lose funding, or worse be marched upon by federal troops, and its elected officials imprisoned for treason. This fear of the federal governments power came as a result of the Civil War. And what gives the Congress and the supreme court such power over the individual? The 14th amendment to the constitution of the United States. Which states you are no longer just a citizen of your state, you are now a citizen of the United States. This is what made the people subject to direct federal control. It is what has completely destroyed any notion of state sovereignty. And the truth is, the 14th amendment was illegally ratified by a tyrannical Republican Congress, which kicked out its own members to allow itself to have the votes necessary to pass it through the Congress. It is a Congress which prohibited the Supreme court from making rulings on the unconstitutional acts it passed. It is a Congress which tried to impeach Andrew Johnson because they passed a law that took away the powers of the executive branch and handed them to the Congress(control over the executive cabinet and right to pardon). It is a Congress which punished the south through military governors who would imprison anyone who opposed them indefinitely for any reason. It is a congress that authorized to hold those states in such despotism until they agreed to ratify the 14th amendment, and they refused. So that same tyrannical Congress changed the ratification process and barred any opposition to its passage from entering the constitutional conventions, so it could be passed. That 14th amendment destroyed any notion of a peaceful nation of nations, and turned us into an all-powerful American empire.


We once attracted people from all parts of the greatest countries on Earth. Europeans once streamed to this country for freedom. Now the only people that come here are from third-world crapholes.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 03-21-2011 at 09:57 PM..
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:03 AM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Update my mindset? I have radically updated my mindset over the past two years. In fact, I was one of the largest supporters of Obama in 2008, watched his 2004 keynote address several times(you should watch it, I used to have it on my Iphone). The words of hope for the future, the idea that racism could be a thing of the past, and the prospect of the first black president were all jumping through my head for the longest time.

Two years ago I would have been much like yourself, looking at the world how I would like it to be, the way I dreamt it to be, but not the way it is. Two years ago I was big government. I was for not only an expansion of healthcare, I would have easily gone for the whole package, single-payer. I believed so profoundly in Unions(which I had been employed in and around for several years prior to that), that I actually believed the reason we avoided communism was directly related to unions.

It amazes me how much my view of the world has changed, that I often reflect on how exactly it happened. How my unwavering optimism for the future has waned into severe reality-induced pessimism.

To understand it, you would have to look at a chronology of events. Beginning with my wanting to move to California, in which I searched on these forums for information about where someone might move in the LA or San Diego areas that wasn't crime laden. If you ever make that kind of search in any metropolitan area, you will realize the easier thing to do is to look at racial makeup of an area. That is the best indicator of a nice place to live and what isn't a nice place to live.

I suffer from depression, so happiness is important to me. I was doing some research on the "happiest countries in the world". You know, where there aren't all the issues we face all day every day in America(such as racism). A country that isn't in practically perpetual wars, worrying every day about terrorist attacks, and getting our junk touched by TSA agents. When it comes to happy countries, it seems that small, homogeneous countries are by far the happiest. The vast majority of those countries are in Europe. And all of the countries are overwhelmingly white.


And you know, me being a strong supporter of healthcare reform, energy reform, and foreign policy reform. I wondered, why can't we be more like Europe? Why can't we be as happy as all those small countries in Europe? What is it that they do that we don't do?

About that time was the long debate about healthcare reform in this country, and the subsequent challenges to the healthcare reform that has passed. And after watching the news, looking at all sides of the argument. All I ever heard was people claiming racism, people talking about welfare, talking about entitlements and handouts. Which carried on to immigration reform and illegals being able to obtain healthcare under the laws. I realized that, racism was not going away anytime soon, that it almost feels like it has gotten worse since Obama was elected. And that racism, which is an inherent part of humanity, is holding us back from being a more unified group of people. This country is built on individualism, and diversity is actually driving us further apart not pulling us together. And that the only way that we can really be happy, is if we attempted to narrow the amount of diversity that exists. Basically, I feel like our best chances of happiness are to live in small, homogeneous nations. Where we would tend to agree on more things, where we would more identify with each as part of a group and not as us vs them. And it would help to prevent our constant abuse of military power.

Where California didn't have to worry about conservatives coming into power and passing laws it didn't agree with. Where Texas didn't have to worry about liberals and the courts trying to shove its ideology down its throat.

At that time, you still had the discussion about Texas wanting to secede from the country, with the governor Rick Perry. And I began thinking that secession might be the best approach to solve this issue. But most people I talked to about secession were very fearful of the idea. That would mean Texas would be in another country? All the people that live in Texas or in other parts of the country, would be sort of "cut off" from each other? That just cannot happen.

The funny thing is, the solution to this problem should have been so blatantly obvious to anyone with any knowledge of American history and principles, that I don't know how I could have missed it. The framework for such a conglomerate of individual nations already exists, it is in the basic structure of our own nation. That was its original intent, to allow a number of small nations to peacefully trade and traverse each other. To provide for a common defense to help resist foreign influence. If only this Republican form of government could be held in place, and to not overtake the sovereignty of the states....

So what happened to this country? What turned it from "these United States" to "the United States". What has destroyed our regional identities. Our individual cultures, and the real diversity of this country? Why do we allow a single entity in the Congress to have almost absolute dominion over our lives? Why do we allow unelected supreme court judges to have control over our morality? What is it that has completely destroyed the very nature of our republic?

The simple answer is, the Civil War. The Civil War was a tragedy in our history, an utterly avoidable war. If you believe it was about slavery, you are only half right. It was about state sovereignty, slavery was just the issue of the day, there were many other issues that almost caused a Civil War(such as the Alien and sedition acts, and tariffs). If another Civil War happened over the healthcare reform law, you might remark it was about healthcare reform, but the truth is, it is about individual and state sovereignty. Does the federal government have the constitutional authority to pass such a law?

Most states don't dare defy the federal government, or they might lose funding, or worse be marched upon by federal troops, and its elected officials imprisoned for treason. This fear of the federal governments power came as a result of the Civil War. And what gives the Congress and the supreme court such power over the individual? The 14th amendment to the constitution of the United States. Which states you are no longer just a citizen of your state, you are now a citizen of the United States. This is what made the people subject to direct federal control. It is what has completely destroyed any notion of state sovereignty. And the truth is, the 14th amendment was illegally ratified by a tyrannical Republican Congress, which kicked out its own members to allow itself to have the votes necessary to pass it through the Congress. It is a Congress which prohibited the Supreme court from making rulings on the unconstitutional acts it passed. It is a Congress which tried to impeach Andrew Johnson because they passed a law that took away the powers of the executive branch and handed them to the Congress(control over the executive cabinet and right to pardon). It is a Congress which punished the south through military governors who would imprison anyone who opposed them indefinitely for any reason. It is a congress that authorized to hold those states in such despotism until they agreed to ratify the 14th amendment, and they refused. So that same tyrannical Congress changed the ratification process and barred any opposition to its passage from entering the constitutional conventions, so it could be passed. That 14th amendment destroyed any notion of a peaceful nation of nations, and turned us into an all-powerful American empire.


We once attracted people from all parts of the greatest countries on Earth. Europeans once streamed to this country for freedom. Now the only people that come here are from third-world crapholes.
First paragraph: Well, anyone can vote for Obama, or even like Obama and still have a negative view of African-Americans as a whole.

Second paragraph: I am still for all of that stuff. However, that is beside the point of this post.

Third: I am not that optimistic either. Part of it comes from the in-fighting within this nation. Stuff I would like to see won't get done.

Next paragraphs: I have a similar story. I get very depressed from time to time. Right now I am stuck in Georgia. I remember being a teenager and getting to the point where I wanted out of the Southeast USA. The biggest reason was that I wanted to move to a region that I perceived as less racist. I even thought about leaving the USA permanently(this was under the Bush administration).
Today I know better. While I feel that there are places that are much better than the Southeast, I am cynical of ever getting to a place where I will have NO RACISM. Even in those European nations you speak of, I might encounter racism in one form or another. Reading the news on the BBC has pretty much let me know this. Those nations you speak of have the nice healthcare and those nations that are happy, there still might be some experiences with racism,as far as me being a Black man there is concerned. Even in Africa I will be different as I will be an "American".

The rest: The way I see it, I think things were not going to work from the beginning. You do not import people into a nation, treat them like crap, and then expect things will be okay. You can't steal land from other people and then expect those persons to be okay with. This nation got started via theft, and violence.
At the same time, splitting up won't exactly work either. There is ONE reason I fear the USA splitting up: It would disrupt the current life I have now. I am in school. I do use financial aid to pay for school and some living expenses. I work too, although my pay couldn't support tuition. Not only that, I don't trust the state government. My feeling is that left to its own devices, alot of things could get done, that I don't like. I am afraid of what could happen to ME if this nation split up. I have alot to loose at this point in my life. Racism could come back with a vengeance. I don't know. If that happens, the simple solution would be to leave. Well, I am not in the position to leave. I would love to leave, but I can't at this point in my life.

As for racism in this nation, if treating everyone in this nation equally under the law and in opportunities(based on merit and merit alone) is socialist, then I like socialism better.

Thing is this, what does racism have to do with having socialist healthcare, going into wars we shouldn't enter, and other issues you mentioned?

And something else, Singapore in a diverse city-state. It's small, but it's clean, and has a high quality of life. How does it keep existing? I ask because you mention that diversity wouldn't work.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:04 AM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
No racists in my family, our parents raised us to respect other people.
And that is how it should be. That is what I am committed to being. Perhaps it was having good experiences in a diverse area. Perhaps it was even watching television in the "multicultural, diverse 1990's", but I liked that decade.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:24 AM
 
2,673 posts, read 3,241,919 times
Reputation: 1996
Take of it what you will.

Readers: Children learn attitudes about race at home - CNN.com
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:27 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,439,563 times
Reputation: 12596
Sometimes it's bad parenting but children pick up racist attitudes from a lot of other places too, like peers, other adults, and TV.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:35 AM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Sometimes it's bad parenting but children pick up racist attitudes from a lot of other places too, like peers, other adults, and TV.
That is definitely something to look at. I picked up many things from TV. I used to watch this show called Puzzle Place. All of those children from different places, different ethnicities, and they were all there together. I thought "what a wonderful thing. It should be like that". I still hold on to that.
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