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Old 03-24-2011, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 8,837,043 times
Reputation: 3315

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
One of them actually has American blood on his hands. Not to justify anything but you asked what the difference was.
In case you aren't paying attention we still have soldiers dying in Iraq and Afghanistan and the commander in chief ran on a platform of bringing our troops home... They both have blood on their hands already even if by some miracle we get away from Libya without losing a man.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,766,652 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
In case you aren't paying attention we still have soldiers dying in Iraq and Afghanistan and the commander in chief ran on a platform of bringing our troops home... They both have blood on their hands already even if by some miracle we get away from Libya without losing a man.

I mentioned earlier that to say "there wouldn't be boots on the ground" is a lie. It just came out today that we do indeed have forward controllers on the ground in Lybia. So what did Obama actually mean by "we will not have boots on the ground" when he knew there already were.
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:09 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,409,927 times
Reputation: 6465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny-Days90 View Post
I have yet to have someone give me an answer to the question.

Is our involvement in Libya an act of war?

If so, why did Obama not go to congress to get PERMISSION to send in our military?

The purpose is to aide the removal of a leader of a country, same as Iraq, so what is the difference between Iraq and Libya then?

Why was it ok to remove one person and not ok to remove another?

Hate to do this to ya Sunny-Days90; do i have to spell it out, the difference is Obama, another free pass i guess. Is this a war, or what, i too would like to know, tell you this, he sure did not plan his strategy very good, oh yeah what strategy.You tell me what the hek the difference is.
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:19 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,409,927 times
Reputation: 6465
Quote:
Originally Posted by freefall View Post
This whole economic mess started with the Bush regime, although Obama has done little to correct the putrid path Bush-Cheney put us on.
As that all you got!! come up with something more original!
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:27 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,409,927 times
Reputation: 6465
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsldcd View Post
The libs do not believe in personal responsibility so expecting hussein obama or any lib to lay the responsibility for anything on him is never going to happen. They will go to threir deaths to blame Bush or someone else. hussein obama is just your run-of-the-mill war monger.

I know i am sick of them, their excuses, their being ignorant. No one else could get away with this crap that obama does, no free pass from me. He did not even seem to have a plan for this mess. All the responsibility that is going to happen from the fallout of us being in Libya is all on Obama and no one else, he is to blame, and he is no different then Bush. All responsibility for what is yet going to happen, is all on him. Spare me all of your excuses.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:28 AM
 
Location: My little patch of Earth
6,193 posts, read 5,359,165 times
Reputation: 3058
Boots on the ground is a misnomer.......

It's actually a 'sand encrusted leather exercise'.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:50 AM
 
Location: texas
3,135 posts, read 3,771,075 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
The situations between Ira and Libya aren't even remotely close. First and foremost a major difference exists between setting up a no fly-zone and enforcing that compared to an actual ground war with 140,000 troops.

The debt has not been doubled in two years, that is simply made up.


Is Libya a threat to the US? If so, please explain how so. One American life should not have to be sacrificed here. The middle east is as it always has been--in turmoil. Are we going to "no fly zone" Yemen? Egypt? Syria? We need to get our priorities straight---our economy should be the #1 item on Obama's list of things to fix, not starting another conflict....
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,466,073 times
Reputation: 24780
Default Sorry, Bush apologists...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
Stop Blaming Bush

For all eternity, Bush will always be responsible for those things Bush fouled up. And that's a long list.
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,155 posts, read 29,238,414 times
Reputation: 5479
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomcome1 View Post
Is Libya a threat to the US? If so, please explain how so. One American life should not have to be sacrificed here. The middle east is as it always has been--in turmoil. Are we going to "no fly zone" Yemen? Egypt? Syria? We need to get our priorities straight---our economy should be the #1 item on Obama's list of things to fix, not starting another conflict....
Assassinations abroad
It is the Libyan people's responsibility to liquidate such scums who are distorting Libya's image abroad.
—Gaddafi talking about exiles in 1982.

Gaddafi employed his network of diplomats and recruits to assassinate dozens of critics around the world. Amnesty International listed at least 25 assassinations between 1980 and 1987.
Gaddafi's agents were active in the United Kingdom, where many Libyans had sought asylum. After Libyan diplomats shot at ten anti-Gaddafi protesters and killed Yvonne Fletcher, a British policewoman, the United Kingdom broke off relations with Gaddafi's regime.In 1980, a Libyan agent attempted to assassinate dissident Faisal Zagallai, a graduate student at Colorado State University in Fort Collins, Colorado. The bullets partially blinded Zagallai. A defector was kidnapped and executed in 1990 just before he was about to receive U.S. citizenship.


Gaddafi asserted in June 1984 that killings could be carried out even when the dissidents were on pilgrimage in the holy city of Mecca. In August 1984, one Libyan plot was thwarted in Mecca
As of 2004, Libya still provided bounties on critics, including 1 million dollars for Ashur Shamis, a Libyan-British journalist.
Weapons of mass destruction program

Gaddafi's attempts to procure weapons of mass destruction began in 1972, when Gaddafi tried to get the People's Republic of China to sell him a nuclear bomb.
In 1977, he tried to get a bomb from Pakistan, but Pakistan severed ties before Libya succeeded in building a weapon.After ties were restored, Gaddafi tried to buy a nuclear weapon from India, but instead, India and Libya agreed for a peaceful use of nuclear energy, in line with India's "atoms for peace" policy.
Several people around the world were indicted for assisting Gaddafi in his chemical weapons programs. Thailand reported its citizens had helped build a storage facility for nerve gas. Germany sentenced a businessman, Jurgen Hippenstiel-Imhausen, to five years in prison for involvement in Libyan

chemical weapons.
Inspectors from the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) verified in 2004 that Libya owned a stockpile of 23 metric tons of mustard gas and more than 1,300 metric tons of precursor chemicals. Disposing of such large quantities of chemical weapons was expected to be expensive. Following the overthrow of Saddam Hussein by US forces in 2003, Gaddafi announced that his nation had an active weapons of mass destruction program, but was willing to allow international inspectors into his country to observe and dismantle them. US President George W. Bush and other supporters of the Iraq War portrayed Gaddafi's announcement as a direct consequence of the Iraq War. Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, a supporter of the Iraq War, was quoted as saying that Gaddafi had privately phoned him, admitting as much. Many foreign policy experts, however, contend that Gaddafi's announcement was merely a continuation of his prior attempts at normalizing relations with the West and getting the sanctions removed.

United States

In 1981 Gaddafi talked about assassinating new American president Ronald Reagan.[85]
Reagan dubbed Gaddafi the "mad dog of the Middle East". In December 1981, the US State Department invalidated US passports for travel to Libya, and in March 1982, the U.S. banned the import of Libyan oil.[86]
In 1984. Gaddafi started plotting terrorist acts inside the U.S. One of the leading groups receiving Gaddafi's money was the Nation of Islam. Al-Rakr, a Libyan-financed gang in Chicago, declared in 1984 that it was preparing for a "race war" to "settle scores with whites". Members of the gang were arrested in 1986 for preparations to bomb government buildings and bring down American planes.[87] In 1986 Libyan state television announced that Libya was training suicide squads to attack American and European interests.

On 14 April 1986, the United States carried out Operation El Dorado Canyon against Gaddafi, bombing air defenses, three army bases, and two airfields in Tripoli and Benghazi. The "surgical strikes" failed to kill Gaddafi but he lost a few dozen military officers. Gaddafi then spread propaganda about how it had killed his "adopted daughter" and how victims had been all civilians. The campaign was successful as large portions of the Western press reported the regime's stories as facts.[2][20] Gaddafi announced that he had won a spectacular military victory over the United States and the country was officially renamed the "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah".[28] However, his speech appeared devoid of passion and even the "victory" celebrations appeared unusual. Criticism of Gaddafi by ordinary Libyan citizens became more bold, such as defacing Gaddafi posters.[28] The raids brought the regime to its the weakest point in 17 years.[28]
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,809 posts, read 26,403,608 times
Reputation: 25705
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
I mentioned earlier that to say "there wouldn't be boots on the ground" is a lie. It just came out today that we do indeed have forward controllers on the ground in Lybia. So what did Obama actually mean by "we will not have boots on the ground" when he knew there already were.
Come on, not one believes we are only participating in a "no-fly zone" operation. We are attacking Gadaffi's ground forces, that has been well documented. If all we were doing was keeping his planes grounded, we'd park a Ageis ship off the coast and sit back and watch the show. As you say, we have to have FACs on the ground, as well as intelligence assets. The smart money is on the US, either alone, under the UN or under NATO, being utilized to "keep the peace", even if we don't have troops in direct combat during the ground war.

BamBam owns this one.
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