U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-23-2011, 03:55 PM
 
334 posts, read 159,385 times
Reputation: 115

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
I see you're pulling out the notion of reparations. Where in this thread is anyone asking for reparations? In fact, when was the last time that you heard a (non-extreme/nutty) Black person saying they wanted reparations for slavery? This stance never fails to amuse me. It's quite possible that my household income exceeds that of many of the folks who are adamant that I want some sort of compensation for the crimes against my ancestors. I wonder how many times we'll have to say that's not so before it's absorbed?

And no one asked you to apologize or take the heat for anything. Where have I asked you to?

Also, I don't know any Blacks who hate all Whites. I know of some who may dislike a person because of their personal experiences with them. Your generalization is unfair and false.

I agree that there were many brave White people who stood up and spoke out against slavery and they are heroes. But please don't fool yourself that the Civil War was all about freeing slaves...that was merely a nice little side bonus.
Apology - Not speaking about you, just a lot of folks I've known in my life.

Keep in mind, I'd never say "all blacks hate whites", because I have plenty of black friends and as far as I can tell it's not an issue.

As for the majority? I have to go by black leaders.

Farrikhan - Racist
Sharpton - Racist
Jackson - Racist
Nagin - Racist
Wright (Obama's pastor) - Racist
Hell, Obama - Racist (by association)

....and that's just to name a few...


Just about every black leader that I've encountered has been caught at one time or another making racist remarks about whites. That tells me that the majority of black folks think that way. Because if George Bush had made similar remarks about blacks, he would've been impeached, mostly by whites.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-23-2011, 03:56 PM
 
10,536 posts, read 12,199,917 times
Reputation: 2804
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
While I find the concept of owning another human as property as despicable, what makes the practice of slavery in the US even more damning is the cruel way in which Africans were treated. In the Bible, the cruel slave-master was punished and God delivered his people. In the 1600-1700's, who was going to deliver slaves from their cruel masters? In a system that made slavery legal, no one. Which is why in order to protect slaves from the hands of cruel masters, the entire practice had to be outlawed and should have been during the FF whole discussion about equality, freedom, etc.
That's a very interesting point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2011, 04:10 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 8,211,664 times
Reputation: 3120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
It gets very tricky to judge people of a different era. Times change and many things that seem accpetable today where viewed differently in the past, and sometimes in the not too distant past. Smoking policies are an example. It seems hard to believe that a decade or so ago a person could light-up in public places like offices and restaurants without repercussion. Fifty years ago newspaper want-ads would say such things as "Butler Needed; Clean Negro man preferred". Or "Waitress position; Older women need not apply". What would people of just 50 or 60 years ago think of today's legalized abortion? In an old movie (1938) I recently watched, the white leading lady referred to a black cab driver as "boy". Today that movie scene makes people shake their heads and roll their eyes in wonder. At the time the movie was made the term "boy" was commonly used. Neither the woman or the cabbie thought a thing about it.

Point is, it becomes tricky to judge a by-gone society, and its people, based on today's standards and ethics. Personally, I think it comes down to what the moral attitudes of the majority of the past population in question. That's why I think the Confederacy can be judged more harishly than Colonial America. By the 1860s American attitudes towards slavery had changed. Opposition to slavery had become widespread.
It's not the tricky at all.

Abolitionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
In western Europe and the Americas abolitionism was a movement to end the slave trade and set slaves free. At the behest of Dominican priest Bartolomé de las Casas who was shocked at the treatment of natives in the New World, Spain enacted the first European law abolishing colonial slavery in 1542, although it was not to last (to 1545).
It's pretty obvioius evil in the 16th century just over 60 years after Columbus landed in the New World people were having obvious moral qualms about the propreirty of slavery in a so-called "Christian society.

Quote:
In the 17th century, Quaker and evangelical religious groups condemned it as un-Christian; in the 18th century, rationalist thinkers of the Enlightenment criticized it for violating the rights of man. Though anti-slavery sentiments were widespread by the late 18th century, they had little immediate effect on the centers of slavery: the West Indies, South America, and the Southern United States. The Somersett's case in 1772 that emancipated slaves in England, helped launch the movement to abolish slavery. Pennsylvania passed An Act for the Gradual Abolition of Slavery in 1780. Britain banned the importation of African slaves in its colonies in 1807, and the United States followed in 1808. Britain abolished slavery throughout the British Empire with the Slavery Abolition Act 1833, the French colonies abolished it 15 years later, while slavery in the United States was abolished in 1865 with the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The reasons Slavery lasted so long in American is it was extremely beneficial financially for both Northerners and Southerners. Even after the actual importation of slaves was prohibited in 1808 Northern ship owners, and bankers still profitted by sending good by ship to Africa, exchanging those goods for slaves and selling slaves in Cuba, the Caribbean and South America. This was known as the Triangle Trade.

But the end of the 18th the Southern United States had a full blown plantation economy where tobacco, cotton, rice, indigo and other cash crops were shipped abroad and to the North for cash. Slaves were the economic engine for the plantation economy. Not only that Southerners in particular developed a social system based on their fears of rebellion and the belief that African slaves were inherently inferior that was predicated on denying African slaves any rights at all.

Charleston, South Carolina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:
Colonial low-country landowners experimented with cash crops ranging from tea to silk. African slaves brought knowledge of rice cultivation, which plantation owners made into a successful business by 1700.[11] With the help of African slaves from the Caribbean, Eliza Lucas, daughter of plantation owner George Lucas, learned how to raise and use indigo in the Low-Country in 1747. Supported with subsidies from Britain, indigo was a leading export by 1750.[12]


Quote:
Antebellum era (1785–1861)

Although the city would lose the status of state capital to Columbia, Charleston became even more prosperous in the plantation-dominated economy of the post-Revolutionary years. The invention of the cotton gin in 1793 revolutionized this crop's production, and it quickly became South Carolina's major export. Cotton plantations relied heavily on slave labor. Slaves were also the primary labor force within the city, working as domestics, artisans, market workers or laborers. By 1820 Charleston's population had grown to 23,000, with a black majority. When a massive slave revolt planned by Denmark Vesey, a free black, was discovered in 1822, such hysteria ensued amidst white Charlestonians and Carolinians that the activities of free blacks and slaves were severely restricted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2011, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,521 posts, read 3,729,960 times
Reputation: 1286
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeWurkin View Post
Apology - Not speaking about you, just a lot of folks I've known in my life.

Keep in mind, I'd never say "all blacks hate whites", because I have plenty of black friends and as far as I can tell it's not an issue.

As for the majority? I have to go by black leaders.

Farrikhan - Racist
Sharpton - Racist
Jackson - Racist
Nagin - Racist
Wright (Obama's pastor) - Racist
Hell, Obama - Racist (by association)

....and that's just to name a few...


Just about every black leader that I've encountered has been caught at one time or another making racist remarks about whites. That tells me that the majority of black folks think that way. Because if George Bush had made similar remarks about blacks, he would've been impeached, mostly by whites.
I don't consider any of those guys you mentioned as leaders (except Obama). They are merely extremists who get off on attention with their outrageous behavior. There are many White people like this (Limbaugh, Beck) but I don't judge White people harshly because of these nutballs. It certainly doesn't tell me that the majority of White folks think that way. You really need to view Blacks as individuals and not some same-minded, same-thinking race of people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2011, 04:18 PM
 
40,653 posts, read 25,074,353 times
Reputation: 12986
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
You really need to view Blacks as individuals and not some same-minded, same-thinking race of people.
I think this same rule needs to be applied as a life lesson. We really need to view Republicans as individuals and not some same-minded, same-thinking political group. We really need to view Southerners as individuals and not some same-minded, same-thinking regional group. We really need to look at the past as being made up of individuals and not some same-minded, same-thinking bunch of dead people. The Founding Fathers were individuals, too. They lived in a time period where certain presumptions were made about the world, and that was reflected in the way they looked at the world. We today live in different times, and have different perspectives. That's why context is important.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2011, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,765 posts, read 25,405,674 times
Reputation: 12241
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
...Which is why in order to protect slaves from the hands of cruel masters, the entire practice had to be outlawed and should have been during the FF whole discussion about equality, freedom, etc.
The problem is that sometimes what a few people want may take a back seat to the immediate issue at hand. And for the leading founders, it had to be establishment of the union and getting it up and running. I'm sure they were opposed to slave trade, the evidence is in Article I/Section 9. But they postponed it, perhaps with the idea that it would invite trouble and many would refuse to join on that ground.

Sort of like Lincoln, who decided to put his personal beliefs (anti-slavery) aside in favor of compromises which were clearly pro-slavery, to bring the defectors back in the union. When the compromises didn't work, he went back to his ways.

The founders chose to push a ban on slave trade by two decades, a generation, perhaps assuming the society would have established itself and such federal ban would be more acceptable.

Good post, BTW.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2011, 04:26 PM
 
334 posts, read 159,385 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
I don't consider any of those guys you mentioned as leaders (except Obama). They are merely extremists who get off on attention with their outrageous behavior. There are many White people like this (Limbaugh, Beck) but I don't judge White people harshly because of these nutballs. It certainly doesn't tell me that the majority of White folks think that way. You really need to view Blacks as individuals and not some same-minded, same-thinking race of people.
Hah, I'll neither dispute the fact that some white leaders are racist, nor that they have a sizable following. That is definitely true.

The troubling thing with the black community is though, other than Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell, can you name other black leaders who are clearly not racist?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2011, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,521 posts, read 3,729,960 times
Reputation: 1286
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeWurkin View Post
Hah, I'll neither dispute the fact that some white leaders are racist, nor that they have a sizable following. That is definitely true.

The troubling thing with the black community is though, other than Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell, can you name other black leaders who are clearly not racist?
I guess where you and I differ is that I don't consider the Black race to have any "leaders". There may be some that are more popular, prominent, in the public eye, etc but none that are representative of our race of people. That last true "leader", IMO, was MLK.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2011, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,818 posts, read 17,025,127 times
Reputation: 8232
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
The founding fathers were progressive. Although some of them may have owned slaves, they oppossed it, and they hoped that this country would find a way to flourish without depending on slavery.

The Founding Fathers were brilliant and heroes. Their work was revolutionary and established a foundation for a country that has helped the entire world progress.

They addressed a lot of the big problems that existed at the time. To expect them to solve EVERY problem in the world is totally unrealistic.

They were not hypocrites in any way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2011, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Way,Way Up On The Old East Coast
2,196 posts, read 1,767,925 times
Reputation: 1089
Default The Whining & Beeeeeeeeachin Never Ends ! What ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
"The ground of liberty is to be gained by inches, and we must be contented to secure what we can get from time to time and eternally press forward for what is yet to get. It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good."

-Thomas Jefferson
hammertime !!! ... Bravo !

Indeed ... a most appropriate entry regarding the vast wisdom of then President Jefferson !!! Abd it does bloody well interject a bit of historical intelligence into this seemingly kindergarden variety of "Racist" ... Hate Thread !

Blimey mates ...Where is the ole "Troll Away Spray" when ya need it ? What ?

Good Onya hammertime ! It's a pleasure to read your stuff !

Cheerio / Old Sgt. Lamar
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

¬© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top