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I live in a small town in North DAkota. I live near my family. Here all we do is work, watch tv, go grocery shopping, go out with friends etc. My family is all straight and my friends are mostly straight. My lifestyle isn't any different than any of theirs, except that I"m more conservative than all of my friends. I'm against casual sex (for myself) i don't care if others do it, that's their business. I have a degree in religion and I'm pretty shy and introverted and stay home a lot watching TV and reading. I keep hearing Christians mention a 'gay lifestyle'. I keep wondering what it is, so that I can learn about it. Being gay is a PART of who I am, like my hair color. It was not chosen. I wish someone would explain to me what they mean by the 'gay lifestyle'. I have never got any specific answers, yet people claim to know what my lifestyle is.
I'm gay but I can't answer you either....I work, pay taxes, maintain my house etc...just like everyone else......except I have a male partner of 28 years...
OH that's it.....many people are married and divorced multiple times; yet still have the nerve to judge how others live their lifes.... while I've stayed with the same partner my entire adult life......that must be my "gay lifestyle"!.
Btw, I don't think the main argument against interracial marriage had anything to do with religion. I think most of it was b/c people still thought of blacks as lesser than whites at that point in time. Don't pin that one on Christianity, or in your words, religious bigots.
Actually, Christianity had a lot to do with the segregation/slavery issue. The Curse of Ham and beliefs that blacks descended from Cain and were evil.
Not all Christians believed this of course, but there is a reason anti-black rhetoric has always been the strongest in the conservative Southern States.
It is just as much the right of Christians to not approve of how you live your life as it is for you not prefer the things you dont. The whole discussion, regardless of how politically correct we hope we are, whether it be homophobia, fear, or whatever you want to call it, is not one-sided, in favor of the feelings of gay people. We all have feelings, and there's this thing called freedom of choice. So you cannot control how and what people think. Many people unfairly, do not like the color of my skin, which is part of who I am, and cannot be changed. I accept that, as long as they do not attempt to discriminate or physically harm me. Otherwise, I carry on with my life, satisfied with who I am.
There is nothing wrong with having an opinion on something. People can disagree with gays all they want (even if for very ignorant and misguided reasons). The issue arises when those same people try to use secular law to force their beliefs on other people. Then it's free game to be publicly criticized and fought against.
They have the right to believe in what ever fantasy they want. but you religious bigots take it too far and put your bible based beliefs into law with your agenda to make everyone believe in and follow the commandments of it.. That is what is WRONG. Gays are not forcing you or any straight person to marry a gay person. No more that making interracial marriage legal forced whites to marry blacks. It is wrong for the bible thumpers to force everyone to believe in their bible. It is tyranny of the majority. All I want is the same exact equal rights to marriage, not a second class knock off that YOU are willing to let us have. Get Real.
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Originally Posted by andrea3821
Do you honestly think speaking in this kind of tone and using this language is going to get you anywhere in this debate? This kind of hateful rhetoric earns you no respect in my book. Maybe THAT is why people have a problem with gays as individuals (instead of just the behaviors that go along with being gay), b/c you all (as has been represented on this thread) have sticks up your butts and have to get on some kind of defensive high horse whenever someone simply says they don't agree with homosexuality. Why are you attacking my religion with such disdain? You can dislike it all you want, but you don't need to go into attack mode. Most of what has been said on this thread has been respectful, and posts like this dumb it all down. It's a shame.
Btw, I don't think the main argument against interracial marriage had anything to do with religion. I think most of it was b/c people still thought of blacks as lesser than whites at that point in time. Don't pin that one on Christianity, or in your words, religious bigots.
I see no 'attack' of your religion or any other in the above. What he's arguing against is the same thing I would argue against - using one's religious beliefs to make laws in this country. You believe homosexuality is wrong and that comes from your religious beliefs. But, since not everyone in this country shares your exact beliefs (not even all Christians), it simply makes no sense to force everyone to say it's wrong by making it illegal, or denying gays the right to marry.
And, as one who was around to hear all of the arguments against interracial marriage, I'll tell you that, as with homosexuality now, 80-90% of the arguments against it WERE religiously based.
So you basically want to ignore all the science and facts and go with the unsupported opinions of the ex-gay religious fringe groups?
The groups that hundreds of thousands of mainstream health professionals warn against because of their lack of evidence-based theories, their long discredited notions of sexual orientation and their religious bias against homosexuals?
Mmmm okay....
I appreciate your response. If there is one thing I have learned in this day and age, it is that both science, and the supposed facts of our day are subject to question. For every theory, there is an opposing theory. There are medical professionals who have opposing theories on the causative factors related to the development of illnesses in the human body all the time. By this I am in no way categorizing homosexuality as a disease, but I am not discounting other facts presented by professionals who still hold to the notion that homosexuality is a behavioral disorder, or by Christians who believe that same sex relationships are unnatural.
In the late 60's to early 70's, homosexuality was not new, but society was becoming more familiar with statistics, opinions and psychological viewpoints regarding the relatively new demographic. Books were published, public and political opinion began to change, and homosexuals began 'coming out' in greater numbers, with greater support.
One of the books, published in the 70's, helped to familiarize the public with the invented term homophobia, used to describe individuals maintaining opposing opinions and supposed irrational fears surrounding homosexuality. Seeing the handwriting on the wall, the American Psychiatric Assoc. bowed out in 1973 when homosexuality was declassified as a behavioral/mental disorder. Tests up to that point were inconclusive and very theoretical which would not have prompted the organization to make such a radical 180 degree turn. Because of governmental support, the shift in public opinion, and the eagerness of constituent pleasing politicians, tests which supported homosexuality as a normal type of sexual orientation began to take center stage and in some cases actually replaced opposing facts and theories. Political correctness won the day, but what is popular is not always right, and unfortunately what is right is not always popular.
In essence, the APA took a dive. Gay activists, capitalizing on the APA's supposed 'new revelation' regarding homosexuality, began to move forward with their agenda. These 'fringe religious groups' you described are actually Christians making up a large percentage of the population of our nation, and the world, who, as I like to describe it, 'didn't drink the kool aid', and who still firmly believe that same sex relationships are wrong according to scripture, but people will of course make their behavioral choices which cannot be controlled by any of us. As I’ve said before, this does not make homosexuality a super-sin, but simply one more way that man is determined to willfully oppose biblical instruction.
Friend, there are at least two major deceptions that have overtaken our society, one was perpetrated by the Federal Reserve, and the other was initiated by the American Psychiatric Association, and there doesn’t appear to be any course correction expected from either in the near future.
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 03-27-2011 at 07:40 PM..
I'm a bit worried about this gay lifestyle. Just a few days ago my brother moved my Mother into his house in Florida, insisting that he and his partner wanted to care of her. She is 87. My grandmother was put in a nursing home by her heterosexual children.
The media and social conservatives frequently portray extreme and stereotypical depictions of "the gay lifestyle" e.g., gay pride parades with leather clad men or focusing on gay "celebrities" who represent stereotypical manners and behaviors. There are plenty of gay people who do live in "gay ghettos", socialize mainly with other gay people and avoid mainstream communities HOWEVER, they are not the majority. Most gay people live typical mainstream lives, live in predominantly heterosexual communities, work at the same boring jobs as everyone else, and have as many if not more straight friends than gay. That is, being gay is not the core of how they define their lives, it's simply a matter of orientation. Perhaps they invisible because they blend in with the majority of society. Still, the sensationalized focus on the "gay lifestyle" e.g., gay men who spend all of their energy on appearances, partying, traveling, etc. is applicable to a minority of gay people.
Young single gay people generally do live the promiscuous, party-oriented, stereotypical lifestyle revolving around gay bars, gay ghettos, pride parades, and are for the most part excluded from mainstream society. Why is this? Its because in most areas this "lifestyle" is the only way to meet other gay people. I am sure being gay is entirely different when you have a partner but for the most part if you are single and gay, you live the "lifestyle" or you stay single.
The things you see in a "gay pride" parade or the bathroom of your local gay nightclub.
So you mean ALL straight people act like the parade goers at Mardis Gras in New Orleans......a bunch of drunken fools throwing beads to bare some boobs and get some "beaver".
Or the latest gang bang outside a straight bar.......or the pervert who molests little girls......or Tiger Woods banging half a city......so ........that means ALL straight people behave that way.
You mean we should JUDGE a whole group of people by the actions of a FEW.........GET A GRIP....I thought that convoluted way of "thinking" went out with Archie Bunker.
A few of my friends on Facebook are gay. Truthfully, I know very little about most of them, as most are a "friend of a friend" type. I have browsed the pictures of these individuals and there is most certainly a "gay lifestyle." How many groups of heterosexual men sit in a room ...all with their shirts off...drinking martinis/wine...and performing extreme acts of cuddling and companionship? None would be my answer. But if you're gay, it seems like its almost a requirement. Especially at a party. It's almost like in order to be gay one has to agree to sit on another mans lap if a picture is going to be taken. Or nuzzle up close to another man for a pose. Does gay mean you have to flaunt it with every picture snapped? Is there something inherently wrong with two (gay) men posing in a picture without almost humping each other? And these are just pictures. Who knows what actually goes on with 20 gay men in the room ( I don't want to know).
I suppose one could compare 20 shirtless gay men sipping martinis to a roomful of jersey-wearing heterosexual football fans. But two men high-fiving and two men sitting on each other's laps are two very different lifestyles for sure in my opinion.
I believe there is without a doubt a gay lifestyle based on personal pictures i've seen.
Hey......you must have studied those pictures for HOURS.....
........CAN you hook me up with your gay friends....I've apparently "missed the boat"......but your buddies are Da Bomb!
Seriously.......it's no different than straight young girls wearing clothes that are 5 sizes too small....showing enough cleavage to blind you on a sunny day and skirts that leave nothing much to the imagination.......
Young guys with no shirts.......I had NO idea just gay guys did that
It's called....YOUTH.......we've all been there and done that......perhaps you haven't!
"Hate the sin but love the sinner" has to win the prize for most over-used cliche.
Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself. He didn't add any qualifiers.
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Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
I'm fine with people who hate the sin, love the person. My problem is with people who hate the person. I have gay friends who have been beat by their parents, kicked out by their parents, and disowned by their parents...for being gay. The reasoning behind this behavior? They believed their child had "turned to the gay life style" and the image they had in mind was lots of partying, lots of sex, drugs and alcohol. But the gay friends I have that got kicked out by their parents don't do these things. They just have parents that (in this case) used the Bible (though I realize not all Christians are like this and the Bible is just the excuse) to justify completely cruel and loveless behavior.
If some parents didn't take it the extreme like this, I wouldn't have such a hard time with this mentality. But parents who end up hating their children and kicking them out start out by buying into this media concept of "the gay lifestyle" when in reality, most gay people, just like most straight people, lead normal lives.
If more people would see that gay people do the same things as straight people, then maybe fewer parents would be driven to kicking out their own child.
The problem with this "love the sinner hate the sin" cliche is that people who use it need to believe that homosexuality is a behavioural choice, not an innate part of the person. Just as heterosexuality is innate in straight people.
What I think they really want is for gay people to either live loveless lonely lives without a partner, or to live a complete lie and pretend to be heterosexual. Neither of these options are very healthy.
I think some of these people think that gays and lesbians are just heterosexuals with some sort of an added kink attraction to the same gender as well as to the opposite gender. Perhaps they think gays and lesbians can just turn off their attraction to the same gender and flick a switch to be attracted to the opposite gender.
I think many fail to take into account that most gays and lesbians don't feel any attraction at all for the opposite gender. (i'm not talking about bi-sexuals or when many gay people go through a period when they try to pretend they are heterosexual just to fit in or avoid stigma). They also fail to take into account that science tells us that gays and lesbians have a slightly different brain structure to heterosexuals which may have been set in the womb; react differently to pheromones; and think a little differently to straight people. None of these characteristics were ever a choice and are not something that can be changed by "praying away the gay".
To me, "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a cowardly way for some Christians to really say "I hate that you are gay" without openly coming out and condemning themselves for hating the person- which is what they are actually doing. NOT "loving" them.
If these people truly "loved" gays and lesbians they would make the effort to find out the facts about homosexuality from reputable sources (not anti-gay religious based websites); study the Bible in its original cultural and linguistic context instead of cherry-picking a handful of verses out of their original context; and actually get to know some gays and lesbians.
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Why are you attacking my religion with such disdain? You can dislike it all you want, but you don't need to go into attack mode. Most of what has been said on this thread has been respectful, and posts like this dumb it all down. It's a shame.
